Thought I’d kick off a thread for those of us interested in EV conversion of SY and SZ series.
There have now been several attempts at this, some more succesful than others, but my goal is to try and assemble some resources, and discuss options relating but not limited to drivetrain, brakes and suspension, steering, controls, and the ethics of converting these historic vehicles.
As a starter, here are my own ideas, please feel free to add projects or any thoughts you have
Thought I’d kick off a thread for those of us interested in EV conversion of SY and SZ series.
There have now been several attempts at this, some more succesful than others, but my goal is to try and assemble some resources, and discuss options relating but not limited to drivetrain, brakes and suspension, steering, controls, and the ethics of converting these historic vehicles.
As a starter, here are my own ideas, please feel free to add projects or any thoughts you have
Is there merit in putting the motor in the original gear-box area, using the prop-shaft and diff, and so keeping the rear end undisturbed? That would mean less work(??) but might need a reduction gear somewhere, but it should fit in the "gear-box" space. It would help to keep the original weight distribution, too. Offered with no practical knowledge of doing such a conversion.
I did originally consider that, but dismissed it as the Tesla motor/diff combo is just so much more elegant and overall a LOT lighter than what you propose.
There does not need to be any change to the rear suspension, and the performance is nicely inline with what the chassis supports, ie 1998 Turbo R level.
Interesting project, great website.
You keep the hydraulic brake system with front sphere and rear hydraulic suspension with rear sphere ? You just replace mechanical pumps by hydraulic pumps ?
It is an appealing project if it is reasonably DIY. The electrics and installation don't bother me. The mechanical work might, depending on the scale of machining necessary. In a few years time it might be the only way one could enjoy driving a PMC without a guilty feeling (15 miles per UK gallon and all).
If you make the conversion simple and can reproduce the fittings needed, or someone copies your fittings, I would be in the market. And a few other folk, too?? Keep the hydraulic system as much as possible with a small electric pump - the hydraulic energy needed by the suspension and brakes is quite small. The steering load is considerable, though, so electric steering??
Sorry, I'm only making suggestions. I don't have the bravery to attempt it alone.
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Alan D..
Electric steering would be ideal, but I think the approach that some (e.g. SuperfastMatt for whom I have a great deal of respect) have taken, namely servoing the steering through the steering column, may put too much load on the RR rack.
So may be better to replace the whole rack with an EPS
Citroen DSs have a multi-cylinder pump to serve the whole power system including steering, which takes a lot of effort. The ID series, which were cut down versions of the DS, had a single cylinder pump to run the suspension only, and in emergencies the brakes as well. In all these Citroens - I have owned many and still have two - the greatest, and only significant load on the hydraulics is steering. A pump with a tiny flow-rate will serve the suspension and brakes as long as it produces lots of psi and has an accumulator. Twice.
Citroen DSs have a multi-cylinder pump to serve the whole power system ............ The ID series, which were cut down versions of the DS, had a single cylinder pump to run the suspension only,
Yes, I think.
With pressure and surface area of piston you will get a force.
With force and stroke you will get a torque.
With torque and rotation speed you will get a power.
Then you will assume losses (friction mainly) and efficiency, multiply by number of pumps, and it is all. IMHO.
I think it's ethical, if you keep all the old parts safely tucked away somewhere. That way if someone ever wants to switch it all back for a museum piece, they can.
It would never be possible to reverse such an undertaking back to "factory original," AKA, museum piece.
I have a SY2 series car that was originally built for the home market that was converted, ahead of my ownership, from RHD to LHD. Even just doing that involves changes that would be very, very difficult indeed to reverse.
Given that we're talking SY and SZ motorcars, which had production numbers that were huge (by RR standards) the probability that there would be anyone who wouldn't just buy one in original, "unmolested" condition if that's what they want is infinitesimally small.
Also, I'm willing to speak heresy - they're just cars. Owners should feel free to make whatever modifications they wish. They should also be aware of what that does to the car's value in the collector car market for that marque. An EV converted RR holds virtually no value in the RR collector community. It almost certainly does in the classic car market as a whole.
thanks for your input, @guyslp , and while I agree there is a lot of work in an ev conversion, I think you may be overlooking the amount of work involved in simply maintaining these vehicles
The fundamentals of the EV revolution are 3 moving parts replacing thousands of moving parts; this is a game changer.
As for the donor, the regulatory environment worldwide is also changing rapidly, with bans on gas guzzlers in major cities and incompatible fuels becoming mandated; should these good condition cars simply not be driven in 10 years time?
As you often say, Well when events change, I change my mind. What do you do?
As for the donor, the regulatory environment worldwide is also changing rapidly, with bans on gas guzzlers in major cities and incompatible fuels becoming mandated; should these good condition cars simply not be driven in 10 years time?
As you often say, Well when events change, I change my mind. What do you do?
1. "Bans on gas guzzlers in major cities" is really not a significant consideration in the collector car community worldwide. These vehicles, even the ones driven far more than is typical, are not daily drivers. I also know very few who would drive them in the core of major cities for a wide variety of reasons.
2. It is very, very unlikely that there will not be "boutique fuel" sources for antique cars, ever. And most legislation "grandfather's in" antique cars (which are not, by standard meaning of antique, all that old).
I change my mind when events change. So far, I see a near zero probability that we won't be able to drive our cars as we always have (which isn't all that much, really) during the remainder of my lifetime.
Now, mind you, I will openly admit that this is my own, and distinctly American, perspective. I am neither omnipresent or omniscient, so the laws prevailing in other nations could change my mind, were I to be subject to them. I've often said that we all, as individuals, have to take the laws of our own respective jurisdictions into account when advice from other jurisdictions that may not share them is offered. I certainly find MOT inspections to be way "over the top," but those who grew up with them see them as perfectly normal. The degree to which insurers can nit-pick in other countries in order to avoid paying claims makes my jaw drop when I hear some of those stories.
But I just don't see our cars as becoming "against the law to drive" anywhere I'm aware of. They're antiques, and will be granted exemptions from what cars produced in the very recent past, now, and the future must conform to.
1. Given their pursuit of the absolute best, it seems likely that rolls and royce would've used full electric if they could've. The advantages over gas in terms of luxuries are undeniable. The batteries of the time unfortunately were good for roughly 12 miles, if the vehicle was somewhat lightweight. You see all the old pictures of electric work trucks from the 1910's. There's certainly an argument to be made that an EV conversion would be an upgrade in terms of luxury. A faster car, much less maintenance, and no nasty gas pumps are luxuries in my book. I think most people would agree here. So he's staying true to the RR spirit.
2. Why does there need to be a donor car? Unless it's some junkyard tesla for the electric parts. It seems like all you'll need is your RR car, and a wrecked tesla.
3. What will you do about the computer system? It seems like a lot of programs will have to be turned off or at least told not to report to the dash anymore.
Well, to me, there are two: The EV from which all "the guts" are being taken and the RR from which all the coachwork and everything else is being taken.
Neither car "escapes unscathed" from their original forms.
Admittedly, in the scenario you posit, I'd consider the wreck to be a true donor car, but the degree of change required really makes the RR one, too.
Correct, and I said, "Well, to me, there are two: The EV from which all "the guts" are being taken and the RR from which all the coachwork and everything else is being taken."
Each is being "eviscerated" such that the resulting single car has a very significant proportion of its "original self" removed as part of the process. The end result is a Bitsa - Bits o' RR, Bits o' Tesla (or whatever EV one might use) and a defunct carcass from the EV.
And that's not a criticism nor a derision, either. It's just a fact. I've been one to argue, consistently, that in the modern era what defines a car more than anything else is its coachwork. If what I see, "Looks like a Rolls-Royce," then that's what it effectively is, whether it retains its Rolls-Royce engine and drivetrain or has had an EV transplant beneath. The age of high-end car makers creating chassis (and, sometimes, but not always, a grille) that then gets shipped to a separate custom body maker ended long before I was born. Yes, you can still have one-offs made if you have "more money than God," but it's just not a common thing anymore, and even when it happens it's usually a full-blown automobile that gets stripped of the existing bodywork and then something else is put in its place.
Things are moving very fast now in the UK on EV adoption (and legislation). Perhaps I am a lone voice but I would sell my car if (when) they ban them or add charges in my home city (Manchester) like they have already in London.
I adore my V8, but the sooner you can get an EV conversation in a crate the better.
I am very interested into converting my Silver Shadow to electric, maintaining the RR look and feel, just more quiet and cheaper to run. I live in the Netherlands and calculated a business case with today's fuel prices.
With Super gas at 2,14 euro/liter, fuel 21 l/100km, 20.000 km/year costs me 8988 euro/year. Road tax is 0 for cars older than 40 years, and MOT will be exempt when it's 50 years old. Mine is from 1978, so 45 years old.
A conversion to electric based on the parts you mention in the teslaRR site should be about 31.000 euro, plus an additional 10.000 for labour doing the conversion, so 41.000 in total.
That gives me a return on investment of 4,56 years. Of course I will not be driving 20.000 km with the Rolls on gas, but when it's electrified, why not? I have 21 solar panels on my roof and can charge it every day for free.
Not counting any money I get back for the removed V8, transmission, drive shaft, rear axle, radiator, exhaust, steering rack.
Based on the weights mentioned in the Johnny Cash conversion video, I calculated I remove 566 kg and add 648 kg. So a 80 kg weight increase, that's equivalent to 1 person, the car will handle that. But the power of the ICE is just 141 kW and the small Tesla drive unit has 220 kW. A nice increase within the design limits of the RR I think. That is also why I don't like the bigger Tesla motor which is too powerful, heavier and a bit more expensive.
@Johnathan Peace: what is the status of your project now? The TeslaRR site seems dormant.
I would ditch the suspension components and install an air ride system, it will save a tremendous amount of weight and it will simplify and perform better. An electric assisted steering rack shouldn't be to difficult, an electric vacuum pump would take care of the brakes.
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