No need to pump the brakes. When the pedal is depressed you are opening a valve. Continuosly pumping the pedal is the method to de-pressurize the system. The accumulators store pressure and without the engine running to replenish the pressure you drain it by pumping the pedal. Your leak could be a corroded supply line to the pressure valve on top of the accumulator., the seal between the ACC and the valve, or the line to the pressure switch (shuts off the warning lites (system 1 or 2)when pressurized. Could also be one of the hoses to the caliper.
Better pics will help. Leaks are easy to trace.

 

It’s definitely not the lines to the caliper. It’s a high-pressure squirt each time the brake is depressed. I only had her pump so I could try to see where it’s coming from. It’s not the lower part of the valve because the sphere is dry. I’ll try to get up in there and get better pics or a video.

Regardless, the valve is going to have to come off, right? That means bleeding, blanking, and in my case, replacing or rebuilding the sphere and valve. No way I’m going through all of this and putting a depleted or flooded sphere back on.

For the record, I get around 35 pumps of the brakes on the test, but the light goes off on brake 2 quickly enough to be concerning, but not urgent.

Might as well just deal with it. Seems the car has forced my hand.

 

OK, When you attempt to remove the hard line that comes from the either hydraulic pump you need 2 3/4" wrenches to loosen the fitting at the pressure regulator. There is an adapter fitting in between. Also a good soaking of PB Blaster at this fitting may help you. What happens is the fittings corrode together and you end up twisting the metal feed line and causing a crease and eventual failure.
Since you haven't answered my private message....I'll ask you here..where did you source the new fan clutch?

Also.. Kelly at British Tool Works does a nice and very fair cost in rebuilding/recharging the spheres.

 

Oy, sorry man. I’m not getting notifications. Just replied. Flying Spares, is where I got mine, but my old one may not be bad if you want to try it out.

I’ll try your rebuild source, although I have a guy close by who said he could charge/rebuild them as well. He did tell me that the FS price to replace, with the core charge, was cheaper than he could rebuild them. He said it takes about 4 hours because they’re so hard to get apart.

I did have a local RR mechanic quote me 17 hours of labor to replace valves and accumulators though. Does that sound accurate? I believe he was including full tank cleaning and overhaul, and a flush of the lines in that quote.

 

John, Give me a call when you get a chance and we can discuss your hydraulics. I have a question about your particular car. Phone is in the private message, Rob

 

Okay. So I found the leak. It's squirting out of one of the rubber hoses at high pressure, when brakes are depressed. There's a pinhole in one of the hoses, which is squirting the brake fluid up into the spring and then dripping down over the rest of the frame. It's not coming from the valve at all.

Since recommended replacement schedule on hoses is 10-12 years, and I'm having a known problem with them, I'm going to assume it hasn't been done within its regular schedule to date.

I ordered caps and plugs from Kelly for blanking off the system, as well as a pressure gauge to use exclusively with RR363, since I'll need one eventually anyway. I also ordered the carb tuner gauges -- those are neat. Once I get the brakes squared away I'll deal with it running rich.

I think I'm going to drain and refresh the RR363, since that's a 1-2 year schedule and I KNOW it hasn't been done, and replace all the hoses I can reach, for now.

I'll save the accumulator spheres and valves for next year.

 

If you're flushing the brake fluid and replacing flexi-hoses on the brake/hydraulic suspension system it makes sense to replace all the flexi-hoses in one go, otherwise old hoses that may be breaking down on the inside will re-contaminate the system. It's recommended to simultaneously clean out the 2 restrictor valves on the rear subframe and replace their seals also and to start by cleaning out the brake fluid reservoir . Your front calliper hoses look as though they're twisted and possibly rubbing against each other which would cause them to wear through within a very short period of time, they should not be touching each other or rubbing on any component as the steering is turned from lock to lock. Castrol DOT3 RR363 is expensive so I use regular DOT3 or DOT4 when flushing, then drain and refill with RR363 and bleed. There's a very good article by Brian Vogel on this forum called "Silver Shadow flush and bleed you brakes the easy way", if you google it you'll find it very helpful. There are home made cost saving alternatives to RR363 where some folk use regular DOT3 or DOT4 mixed with 10% pharmaceutical grade castor oil, I've done it and had no noticeable side effects but proceed at your own risk if you decide to go that route.

 

Castrol DOT3 RR363 is expensive so I use regular DOT3 or DOT4 when flushing, then drain and refill with RR363 and bleed. There's a very good article by Brian Vogel on this forum called "Silver Shadow flush and bleed you brakes the easy way", if you google it you'll find it very helpful.

Oh man... that is brilliant. Why didn't I think of this. I was sitting here trying to figure out how to flush as little as possible, but I like this solution much better. Flushing with DOT3 is exactly the right solution here... I can use as much as I want and then fill with 363 at the end. Great solution.

I'll look for the article. I'm sure it will be very helpful.

John, A common mistake with line fittings is over tightening. If that happens the flare does not seal properly. Just get them snug and then a bit more. The torque figures are posted in the service manual for reference and you will see it's not much at all.

Good advice, thanks. I'm going to go over the tech manual several times before and during this project.

 

John, A common mistake with line fittings is over tightening. If that happens the flare does not seal properly. Just get them snug and then a bit more. The torque figures are posted in the service manual for reference and you will see it's not much at all.

 

Yep, I just buy a 5L can of DOT 4 (hard to find DOT3 here anymore) and use about 4 litres in the flush and change the fluid in a couple of other old cars with the remaining 1L. When I'm replacing the flexi hoses I usually blow through the steel pipes with an air compressor when 2 ends are open, I put a loose rag over the other end to catch any waste.

 

Ah, good idea. I'll try that. Every little bit helps, on this car.

Sounds like Kelly has nickel-plated low-profile spheres and valves for the same price I can get them from FS, and they're state-side. I might consider just swapping them now. A bit worried about getting them off and on without damaging them, but I have to figure this out at some point anyway.

 

Getting the spheres off isn't difficult if you have access to a hoist, but can be done without one provided the car is safely supported, it's easier when the front wheels are removed. Remove the return pipe from the ACV first to drain the reservoir into a suitable container. Then the other pipes can be removed from the HCV. 3 bolts under the sphere connect the warning plate to the sphere and engine block, remove these. 3 bolts from the accumulator to engine block are then removed while holding the assembly so it doesn't fall, it weighs a couple of kilos. It comes out as a combined unit (ACV & sphere). Hold the sphere tightly between one hand and your leg and tap the flat spot on the back of the ACV with a soft copper hammer or rubber mallet and the seal should break, then unscrew by hand. When fitting the new sphere to the ACV use a new seal and tighten by hand giving a gentle tap with a rubber mallet or copper hammer to snug the seal, don't overtighten or the seal may be damaged. Since you will be installing a new sphere you won't have the hassle of splitting the old one. Reinstallation is the reverse of removal although it can be a bit fiddly. It's easier to rethread the pipe from the pump to the HCV if you slightly loosen the opposite end which will give you some slack to play with, don't overtighten or you may damage the flare joints, it's better to nip them up a little at a time if a leak appears after reassembly.

 

If I do this, I'm replacing the valves too, just in case. Kelly has some that he nickel plated with a gold finish -- too bad no one will ever see them, because he sent me pictures and they are gorgeous.

I don't know. Half the problem with this whole thing is just getting the car off the ground. I need my floor jack back. I ordered some o-rings to see if I can find the right one to fix the leak while I'm waiting for parts to arrive.

Meanwhile I'm going over recommendations on jacking and supporting the car -- the Rolls Royce approved jack stand points scare the everliving bejeezus out of me. I guess I have to do it, but man, I wish I had a lift.

 

Jack points with trolley: First chock both rear tires. Slide jack with a protective wood block and position under the front subframe where you see 2 nuts facing you. This mounting point is for the lower triangle arms. It is strong and central and you can lift the front end equally. Then place the stands just rear of the fender wells where the intersection of the box frame meets the rocker box channels. I used cut tree sections or heavy wood blocks (10x10 cuts) to rest the car on before I had a lift. They are stable and have a wide surface area for support. All jack points for every method is shown in the beginning chapters of the service manual or I can send pics. My cars spends most of it's life on the life so its not a problem to show you.

 

Yes, please send pics. I think I'm going to have to raise the rear first -- I can't get around the front unless I back it in, and I need the jack to be straight when I do the last part.

Anyway, please send pictures. I'd love to see how you do this.

 

DON'T chock both sides of either front or rear wheels when using a floor jack under the front or rear of a Shadow! Car must be in neutral, key in ignition, park brake off. You can put blocks behind the rear wheels to keep it from rolling back but it must be free to move forward if you are lifting the front only. If lifting the rear first, blocks can go in front of front wheels, but the car must be free to roll backwards as it is lifted from the rear.

You will need to raise the rear first if you are putting the car up on four stands. If you lift the front first you cannot get a floor jack under the rear. Also, the car must be free to roll towards the end you are jacking up. As it lifts, either the car or jack must roll as the lifting pad of the jack will move fore and aft in relation to the height. This is especially dangerous lifting under the front suspension pivots, if the jack wheels stick on a washer or bolt or divot in the floor and the rear wheels are chocked or the park brake is on the jack can easily slide off the front of the pivots dropping the car. In this case the jack will destroy the radiator. So, as you are lifting keep an eye on the jack pad and wheels. Make sure the pad stays in the same place and the jack or car can move freely as it raises. A good thing to have on the jack pad is a urethane pad that deforms around the pivots to help hold it in place.

When lowering the car on a floor jack the same rule applies, the car or the jack must be free to roll in the opposite direction than when lifting.

 

I once placed a trolley jack under the differential to lift the rear. It was on a level garage floor. When I got to the point where both rear tyres left the ground the car and jack suddenly careered backwards for a few feet until the jack met a ridge at the garage door and everything stopped moving, the jack stayed in place under the diff and no damage was done but I got a fright as I scrambled out of the way. I had placed chocks before the front wheels as I would have expected the car to possibly roll forward since I was raising the rear but I hadn't taken into account that when the rear left wheels left the ground the jack wheels took over. Ever since then I have lifted and supported one corner at a time when raising the rear.

 

The trolley jack will seek its spot due to the wheels on it. When I used a jack I would always chock either the front or rear wheel depending what end I was jacking. Never had a problem.

 

This project gets more terrifying with each passing day....

 

Don't panic, I just placed the chocks in the wrong place, lesson learned.

 

I don't know what scares me more, crushing myself, or crushing the car.

 

I wrote that post to warn someone unfamiliar with the use of floor (trolley) jacks, specifically on the front of a Shadow or Spur. They can and do slide off quite easily if the floor jack or car cannot move as it is being raised. On the front you are likely to destroy the radiator if it slips off. Different floor surfaces, different jacks can have different issues. Always use a good strong commercial type floor jack, not the little Chinese made ones. These are heavy cars. Sweep the floor before you jack the car, even a small washer can prevent the jack from rolling ahead as it lifts. It is safer to allow the car to roll ahead also just in case the jack sticks on something. Keep the jack wheels oiled or greased so it rolls easily, this can make a big difference in movement of the jack. Watch the jack pad on the suspension pivots carefully as you jack up the front. Do the same on the rear, it can slide off there too. Use a rubber or urethane pad or block of softwood on the jack. Don't rush, now that you know what to watch for you should have no problem safely jacking up the front or rear of your Shadow.

 

Well, for Larry and a few others (I think Rob and Jim are following along over on the RROC forums), I made it through Day 1 without killing myself. Of course I haven't even started bleeding yet....

The car is up, and I managed to suck all the fluid out of the reservoir. Screens are in good shape. Calipers look like maybe I'll be rebuilding them after all.

What do you guys think?

 

Incidentally, my wife thinks RR363 smells like popcorn. This car is just delicious.

 

John, no sense in bleeding the system. Remember you have brake hoses to replace, acc to remove and perhaps calipers to split. You will always feel drag with rotors against the pads. Be mindful of the "M" wire springs that are on top of the pads. They point forward. The pads must slide smoothly within the caliper and cleaning the edges where the side tabs are (pad pins) is important so they slide. Check the rotors for score lines....they make have to be cut and the min thickness is stamped on the edge. It may be a good idea anyway because it could eliminate shudder if they are not flat. A smear of anti seize is acceptable. Remember do not overtighten the bleeder nipples or they will never seal...use a smear of antiseize here also. You should replace the return hoses to the reservoir since they break down also. Again...no point in filling the reservoir until the work is finished.

 

Thanks Rob. I thought I needed to bleed because it was pressurized?

Do you have links to examples of the hoses I’m supposed to replace? I have a set of 10 I bought but I’m told there are 17 hoses. I still can’t get to 17 and I have no idea where these extra hoses are. Are they the high pressure braided lines?

 

John, the rest of the hoses will be for the height control. You can depressurize the system by opening the bleeders on the accumulator control valves or by pumping the brake pedal until both brake warning lights illuminate with the ignition key on and then another 20 pumps or so after they come on to be sure. This will not release any pressure in the height control system so crack the bleeders for the rams too. For the reservoir to brake pump feed hoses just use Gates 3/8ths ID heater or radiator overflow hose. It is composed of EPDM rubber which is compatible with DOT 3 & 4 (& therefore RR363) brake fluid. DO NOT use fuel hose, it will dissolve in DOT 3 or 4 based glycol brake fluids.