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Discussion Starter #42
This is where even period road tests by motoring magazines can be subjective. If you take a Jaguar and a Mercedes on a road racing or handing track and compare them to a Rolls Royce or a Cadillac, then of course, there is no question that they Rolls will 'roll' and the Cadillac would probably take that corner with the finesse of an elephant on roller skates. The 6.9 was a revelation at the time so in terms of performance, nothing could get near it. Even by today's standards, I embarrassed many (10 year old) Mustangs with mine.

But that's not how people drive a Rolls Royce, they do have super light steering (as does the XJ12 for that matter) making them feel less planted than the German but they are designed for uncompromising ride and not handling.

If you're looking for a closer experience to your W140, consider a Bentley Turbo R. My Brooklands definitely handles better and has much more power compared to a Corniche or Shadow (No experience with a spur). Yet better still, drive one! Everything that everyone is telling you here is subjective.

Yes, you are right most probably. So I have learned that MB and RR are two different worlds and there is no sense to compare them. This is a good one: uncompromising ride and not handling. It tells everything. I will certainly check situation about Bentley Turbo R, thanks for suggestion.
Samo
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Here you go Samo, if you want to compare the early Bentley Turbo R to it's contemporary piers (including the W126), here's a Car Magazine article from 1987

http://stroke8.org/RR/BentleyGRPTest.htm

I am shaking in expectation ... I will read it later (there is so little time during the week for such things). Thanks, this article seems extremely interesting. So to conclude, I have a lot of homework to do (article, Bentley Turbo R.). You did no mention to check XJ12. Why?

Samo
 

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I need to get back to my XJ12C, Yes, you're right, so little time. Here's a picture of it where it rests, probably not moved in a couple of years.

Engine / Trans is finally out of the 280SEL from underneath. Now it's rear end, and a few nicknacks and it will be ready for pickup. In the words of Danny Glover, "i'm getting too old for this s**t"
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I need to get back to my XJ12C, Yes, you're right, so little time. Here's a picture of it where it rests, probably not moved in a couple of years.

Engine / Trans is finally out of the 280SEL from underneath. Now it's rear end, and a few nicknacks and it will be ready for pickup. In the words of Danny Glover, "i'm getting too old for this s**t"

You have a XJ12 too? :)
Danny Glover is smart ... however hanging around cars and taking care of them is best thing in the world, so I guess we cannot help ourselves and age will not prevent us from doing it ...
 

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Yeah I have that silver 75 XJ12C that you see in the picture and a 1994 XJ12 that I bought right around the same time that I got my silver shadow. The 94 belonged to a friend of mine who's somewhat obsessive about making a car perfect but sometimes gets frustrated and flips to selling the car for next to nothing. He called me telling me that he planned to donate it to a charity and asked if I wanted to buy it instead so I did. I'll probably sell it back to him in a few months when he's pulled the pin on another car :)

The chopping continues , I'm ready to get this car out so that I can get back on the SS2

I can probably recreate this road test, except in my case it would be a push test as all my cars seem to be in one state of disrepair or another.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I can probably recreate this road test, except in my case it would be a push test as all my cars seem to be in one state of disrepair or another.

what is wrong with SS2 in the picture (right)?
 

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what is wrong with SS2 in the picture (right)?
Quite a long story. I traded a W123 300D for it last December. It was not running and the brakes were locked up. I've been slowly fixing, learning , breaking and re-fixing over the last few months. It's been fun.....mostly :)
 

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Discussion Starter #49
alabbasi, I have read the last article where Bentley Turbo R is evidently ranked highest in comparison to others. I agree in many aspects with the author. To me aristocracy is what matters. I mean aristocracy built into a RR or Bentley. Comparing these two gives RR as a winner in my mind. RR is simply more "calm".
Samo
 

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That article is a nice read. It's interesting that the 750i got so much praise back when it was new, yet today I cannot say that I've seen an E32 BMW, let alone a 750i on the road in 2018 and 2019.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
I did not see any w140 from here to Germany for a long time. it was not so 5 years ago.
 

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I did not see any w140 from here to Germany for a long time. it was not so 5 years ago.
I still see them every so often here. Not as much as 10 years ago and mainly because of the effort required to change the evaporator on one if it fails. The good thing about the part of Texas where I live is the lack of rust. You can climb under a 30 year old car and every hose and brake line looks brand spanking new.

I just recently bought another silver shadow that's fire damaged under the hood, but otherwise a very nice car. As it appears to have lived in Texas most of its life, I'm keen to crawl underneath it and see what it looks like compared to the gold car which is from Tennessee
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I still see them every so often here.

I believe you. In 1998 on my first trip to USA, in Seattle Washington "my W108" year 1969 was actually almost the first car which I saw on a street when I left a plane.


I wish I had 5% of the place you have.
 

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Just a few things to add Samosali,

Sorry this became so long. If it's too long just read the first 3 paragraphs.

Don't buy into the false notion that RR and B are unreliable or expensive to maintain. If you get a good one and take care of it maintenance is very inexpensive. It will be the most economical car to own because it lasts forever, doesn't depreciate, and when you combine those features with the free insurance (at least in the USA, insurance for a vintage RR is less than nothing at all, so long as you have another car on the policy, adding the RR to the policy puts you in a different actuarial chart and the total for both cars is less than the rates for one non pmc car alone; if you have two or more non pmc cars on the policy, the rates on all of them come down when a PMC is added). For a lot of people, this is $100 per month they save, which allows $1200 for gasoline or maintenance.

There are 2 main rules 1. Buy a good car 2. take care of it. If you follow both, you are likely to have the most reliable car you have ever had, and surely the most enjoyable.

Get a 20,000 series car. It shouldn't cost any more than an earlier one. The closest thing to a Honda Accord, that Royce's ever made. It runs very well without any computer. it does have a computer but it is a Bosch K jetronic Lambda unit, which rarely fails and if it does fail, the car continues running, with very accurate but not perfect air to fuel ratio. The car can be serviced without a computer as well. Besides that, it is more reliable than the later computerized cars, and more economical and simpler than the earlier cars.

Try to look at several cars, try to get a feeling for how they smell and look and drive. Don't get a car that looks dirty or worn out. The car has to have been cared for. If it is dirty, or broken, they didn't care. Getting a good car vs. a neglected one makes all the difference, not only in finance but in how you feel driving it. The car was made to serve people, not the other way around. With a good car you are a king and with a bad car you are a slave.

Just as an example, I decided to buy a car for my sister and her family. All they had were Chevys, and the mechanics were taking them to the cleaners and the cars falling apart. I looked at all sorts of things, Toyota Land Cruiser, Chevy Suburban, etc. Eventually I realized all those cars are made of plastic, some of them are actually disposeable, the Suburbans had airbags that deploy for no reason, injuring passengers, and they still haven't found a way to fix it, etc etc. I was also looking at listings for RR and B, but finding only overpriced or poor condition cars. But after 4 months of looking, something turned up. An 88 Spur, with 37k miles, in absolute perfect original condition (almost unheard of in my price range, not even one crease on the drivers seat, or one scratch on the black leather steering wheel). This car had all the right features. Only 1 owner, only serviced by the dealer who sold it new, all service records included (not only shows they serviced it, but confirms the mileage to be accurate), and the car was as new. The wood had just been lacquered, because the man didn't want any cracks in the wood. He did everything that the car should have had to maintain it. Underneath it looked brand new too, so he never drove it in the winter. The leather was perfect, and never redyed. All the paint was original and perfect. The grille looked like a mirror. (sometimes they look like brushed stainless because folks try to clean them too hard) It was like a dream come true. I got it for $16,500, and it will last them forever. It makes them happy and safe. Now I don't have to worry about them living thousands of miles away from me without a good mechanic, because this car isn't going to break. I just tell them what maintenance to do, and if anything happens that requires the car to have a new part installed, I will come for a visit and attend to it. But my practice has been to replace that type of item prior to failure, that way the car never causes inconvenience to anyone. This has worked with my 69, which has run flawlessly for 50 years without causing any inconvenience. So, certainly this 88 can do the same.


I have a 69 shadow and a 88 spur. The 88 is worlds apart from the 69 in handling and ride. (not to say the 69 rides like a 59 cadillac; the 69 is an uncanny blend of soft with secure. it leans but has very accurate steering and roadholding) In the 88, you still have a very fine and totally silent ride; but the pillow/cloud softness of the 69 isn't there at all. You will know if you hit a large obstacle in the road, because you will get a slight feeling in the chassis, (but no noise). The steering is so precise, that if you look in the back seat for 1 second, if you move the wheel at all without watching the road, you will have the car in the ditch. There is no sneeze factor whatsoever. I wouldn't worry about the car being ponderous or not handling well at all. It has more precise steering than any car I have ever had, including Porsche, Mercedes, etc. A lot more precise than even a new w140 Mercedes. So don't worry about that part. In fact mercedes often used recirculating ball steering, which is 1950s technology, whilst the Silver Shadow ii and Silver Spur uses Rack and Pinion steering, which is current state of the art. If you test an SZ car and the rear suspension is hard as a rock, this is probably because the gas springs are shot, about $80 per side and a few minutes of your own labour will return the car to brand new springs and perfect ride. Whatever car you get, try to factor $1000 for remedial work after purchase. This may be any item, but I use this number for any used car purchased, it's inevitable to spend this amount right after purchase. If the brake hoses are original change them straight away because they can make the calipers tighten up, which makes the bearings burn up, which can amount to a $20 hose causing $1000 of damage. Even buying genuine parts, this is only a few hundred. Be wary of regular Bentley Dealers, I have been quoted extremely high parts prices for genuine spares which are available from other Bentley dealers for much less. Introcar may have a price of $350, whilst Albers may be $550 for same part, while Bentley Long Island or the Manhattan dealer may charge $950, all for exactly the same genuine part.

They can go about 450k miles before major work if they are cared for properly. So a car with 100k is fine, if cared for. But..many cars have very low miles, and you shouldn't have to pay much more for low mileage. Try to find one with recent use though. If it has 30k miles but hasn't gone more than 100 miles in 20 years, maybe avoid that one. Unless they can prove they changed the coolant every few years. Coolant changes are required in storage. And for a Shadow, brake fluid changes. I wouldn't touch a shadow that sat around unless it was a free gift or unless they changed the brake fluid every 2 or 3 yrs.

It is a shame that there are not more cars near you, but if your import duties are not too high (or maybe exempt for old cars) see about getting a good one from out of country...

Cheers.
Andre
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Hi Andre, sorry for my late reply and thanks for your writing. I did not visit this forum for several months at all however I was very active in things related to RR. In another words, I purchased a house with a two car garage, so I do not have any excuse any more. Corona virus will maybe postpone the date of moving into the house and due to economical uncertainty which follows I am not sure when the D day to buy a RR will come, but this is another story.
I like very much what you wrote and it helps a lot, so thanks again. As you most probably have realized, I need such opinions because the terrain is completely new to me.
Conclusion is that I made two huge steps forward: (i) house with nice garage and (ii) improvement of my thoughts.

Another important question, I ask EVERYBODY to reply: I am a mechanical engineer and professional guitar maker, thus i wonder if I should start to produce wooden parts for RR cars and become a supplier for these parts in our community. I have place, experiences and knowledge to work with wood. I am not underestimating the procedure to complete a RR dashboard or door trims. Good thing is that these parts would be relatively cheap because labor here is cheap in comparison to US for instance. So gentlemen, do I have your support, opinions PLEASE, suggestions please.

Should I start a new thread about the idea to produce wooden parts like dashboard and door trims?

best, Samo
 

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There are plenty of wood trim pieces available for RR. Producing individual items for RR has one very important criteria that must be followed. The veneer selected for a car is book matched individually on a door cap and from side to side within the cabin.
Any repair to missing veneer has been the use of filler to level, and staining to replicate the veneer signature, using various shades, lines, etc. This is the way professional veneer restorers work and preserve the look that was original to the specific car. Many Pebble Beach cars retain their original wood and have been rescued this way.
 

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If you're interested in making wood pieces, I'd say go for it, I don't think that that you would would have enough business to make a business of it because of the small number of cars that exist so consider offering for other cars such as Jaguars and Mercedes. The wood bow on a W109 or the trim that goes around the window will likely be a bigger seller in your neck of the woods.

Good luck

28102
 

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Samo, along with what Wraithman said, consider the number of different configurations you would have develop. Early Post war, Cloud/S series Bentley, early Shadows, later Shadows, Shadow II, long wheel base, drop head, two door fixed head sedan, Camargue, early Spirit/Spur, later Spirit Spur along with the appropriate Bentleys. Then consider the pre WWII cars.
After you consider this, ask yourself this "how many owners of these cars are willing to pay what you think your services are worth". Then ask yourself, "how many of these owners would be willing to ship you their wood panels so you can make templates and drawings".
After you consider your answers, is it still something you want to pursue, do you have the money and time to do it, if so, how long can you go with a minimal return on your time and money.Starting a business from a hobby can be a fun filled time with many challenges and frustrations. It can be a very long process before you are meeting your expenses.
Keep your eyes wide open, make your decision based on reality, and not a dream, and if you decide to go forward, follow your DREAM with all of your hear.
I wish you the best in your decision my friend.
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Gentlemen, three precious opinions so far. It seems that my idea was not so brilliant. All reasons for a hesitation mentioned above are real and relevant. Renewing wooden trim for one car is something totally different than making a business out of it - that's what I have learned today. I am maybe good with my hands and I know a lot about wood and finishing, however this is only a part of a story. Maybe, if I find a partner who will arrange everything else (selling, marketing, etc.) beside renovation/production itself, then there is a chance to start with my idea. Time will show.

Best regards, Samo
 
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