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I forgot to address the lower rocker panel stainless trim. As you know there is an access plate there(on both sides) to remove the nut. These can be brittle and corrosion over the years do not help. Gain access and use PB Blaster and let it sit. I use a deep socket by hand to remove.
I would suggest, if you want to be thorough, to remove the rear inner-fender section so you have complete access to this cavity. It is a known debris and moist trap area so cleaning, and few shots of Rust-O-Leum rusty metal primer will offer good protection going forward. You will notice older cars with this area being rusted. I had a 1967 in the shop with this issue and we caught early.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Thanks Wraithman

I think I will take out those fender liners. they will be able to see what is happening in there. it's almost stupid not to investigate that now to make sure no rust is starting from behind.

Are deep ba sockets available?

I will put the pb blaster on there days in advance good idea.
 

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Hi again,


I agree the early side lights are a bit of carbuncle but I do like originality. I also like my round front TEX wing mirrors so would never replace them. I don't like the Desmo ones though that were sort of square/oval shape they stuck out too far.


Re the wheel discs again there were a few different types. Are yours the full size solid one or the ones that had the outer ring and hub.


Mine are the later type with the slots which I like as damage is done when trying to lever off usually but I place two 15mm flat ring spanners into slots 180 degrees apart then turn them and slide to end of slots. I quick hard pull then releases the wheel trim without damage to the outer edge.


However a good panel beater should be able to starighten them and being stainless imperfections can be rubbed down and the polished up.


You have most things covered now from your enquiries but keep them coming and if you have not got your front screen out yet ask us because it has to be done a special way to avoid glass breaking.


Wraithman and I do it different ways but both work safely. Also refitting with new rubber and forming the finisher to the glass is essential.



Best regards


Steve
 

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I recall using a 5/16 x 1/4 deep socket or maybe 9/32 and it worked fine.

There is a RR protocol for wheelcover removal. They recommend using the valve stem as a reference point (at 12 o'clock) and going to the right at 2 o'clock, at that point there is a nub on the wheel where the tool can be inserted. When the wrong tool or procedure is used it usually results in outward dimples on the cover.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Thanks so much for all your help guys!! I know I ask a lot and write too long. No need to answer these immediately, even though I sometimes write back quickly. This job will not be done until march at the earliest. We haven't even stripped the car yet.

As to the layers of paint Steve, that is true you have to let the solvent of each layer come out at a proper speed. If the outer finish dries too soon before the solvent underneath has cured, it will erupt out of there later on. Solvent pop. I think that is what you were talking about.


What I was trying to say before, (using wrong words and sentences), was how they are making clear coats that bond chemically with the colour coats underneath, to create effectively, a single unit. Similar to what can be done with a two part epoxy. if you wait too long before recoating, you lose the abitlty of the two layers to bond chemically into a single layer, and in that case the only way to get your next layer to stick is to sand the prior coat to get a mechanical bond. On the other hand, if you don't wait long enough, you get what I believe you were talking about, which is trapped solvent. This happens also when folks use too fast of a reducer, or put too many coats on too quickly. That is why there is a "recoat window". Can't be too early nor too late, lest consequence befall.

This is where we use experts.
 

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Spirit , that's is what happened to me a long time ago with my first base/clearcoat project. Luckily it was a friends VW, but none the less I waited too long to top with clear and it did not bond well and weeks later peeled off. I miss the lacquer days!
I also had issues with another project with solvent pop. The new paints require alot of reading and practice and there is alot of chemistry involved.
Whenever I get involved with new projects I call the company and today we have Youtube which helps alot.
You're on the right path with your research. You may want to strip the car yourself and save money in the process or else the paint shop will happily charge you.
 

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Hi,


Not sure about a nub on the wheel but it is exactly where on the full size trim there is a hole in the metal wheel and a clip in the back of the wheel trim so logically to place the lever in that position. The number of times I have seen the clip on the trim bent or broken because people have not lined that up into the hole when replacing.



I still prefer my method though when the trim has slots as absolutely no damage possible on the thin outer edge. That said protocol is essential if the solid full wheel finisher.


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Thanks guys. You will be happy to know, I have asked not a single question in this latest installment of the saga!!

I am sorry to hear about the trouble with that paint job, that is very disconcerting, and it makes such a mess when that happens. I have had many cars where the clear came off. Often I just polished up the basecoat and kept driving until the car died. (disposable 1990s american garbage)

I happened to read in my textbook last night about the first days of doing base coat/clear coat paint, and why so many thousands of cars had failures of clearcoat to stay on the cars.

The trouble was, they were using two different types of paint that were not compatible. For the base coat they used a lacquer or enamel based product that was not catalized. it was a "1 pack" paint as they say in England. then for the clear coat they sprayed that on top of the base coat without sanding the basecoat at all. This clear coat was a catalyzed "2 pack" urethane or enamel, which couldn't chemically bond with the base coat. Since the base coat wasn't sanded, there was no mechanical bond either. (sanding base coat before clear coat is a bad situation because the sanding scratches show through unless you use 600, and then they aren't deep enough to provide much mechanical bond, but it probably would be enough to keep paint on the car in the easiest of conditions, and they didn't even do that at these new car factories).

Now these days, in the aftermarket (not at new car factories anymore), some folks still use a single component base coat with a catalyzed clear coat. I am not going to do this! I don't even like the idea of clear coat and don't understand why we used to have metallic single stage paints but now you have to have a clear coat on top of it. I am going to use a catalyzed 2 pack base coat, and a 2 pack clear coat, both from the same company (the best car paint company there is), and those two layers will bond chemically with each other like glue. He will spray them within the recoat window, so no sanding will be necessary and they won't be able to separate layers once they both cure. These catalyzed paints cure without any air needed, so we don't have to worry about the underneath layer getting suffocated by the top layer. This was the problem with some of the new car factories. The lacquer underneath couldn't ever finish drying completely, and it's solvent eventually came up and sat between the two coats and pushed the clear right off. Mainly I am glad that other folks understand this stuff, otherwise I wouldn't even use this newfangled paint.

I miss the lacquer days too, and if I could have gotten good lacquer I would have painted the whole car myself. the new paints are not really paint so much as they are chemicals. They are an accident waiting to happen if you don't follow every direction for each product, plus examine the matrix sheets which tell you which products can go over which other ones, and which products can go under which other products, and what the time windows are for all of those!

Even with all this, even the guru experts have jobs go bad on them, right in the booth. There are other variables, plus the possibility of manufacturing mistakes or more likely, old product. This new stuff has a 1 year shelf life: after that, it's not guaranteed to cure. the better products have dates on the cans. But you have to trust your supplier. At $500 a gallon, it isn't hard to pour old stuff into new cans. Would you like to throw out $25,000 worth of paint just because it is 13 months old? It's all out of control. The whole world. The laws. Everything. Give me some real Acrylic Lacquer, and let me paint my car so it can survive the next 50 years. But NOOO!!! It has lead!!! you will kill us all!!! My dad had his Packard fenders done in acrylic lacquer in 1968, they still look like the day they were painted.

Cheerio
 

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Well said Spirit.. I remember painting my 1957 Corvette under a carport. Lacquer is so forgiving. Make a mistake, sand it out and move on.
Now there is so much chemistry it is mind boggling to the lacquer generation.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
And lacquer was so fast. So beautiful when done. Really the absolute height of technology was in the late 1960s. Everything since then is a complication with unwanted consequences. Folks trying to think of different ways to do things we already could do so elegantly. I think of people in 1950 who were able to whisper calmly to each other on the wonderful telephone. Now we have to say, "you are breaking up" "can you hear me now"? My battery is dying we can't talk anymore. In the 60s they were bouncing our calls off of satellites, with crystal clarity. Now they can't get our handset signal to go half a mile to the nearest tower without breaking up. our cars would run with air, gas, and 12v positive to the coil. Now we need a bundle of wires 3" thick and a computer.



1.) I have one thing to add that may be helpful. I have found even using the prescribed 1 oclock position to remove the wheel covers that the tommy bar still bends the outer edges.(I have the full wheel covers without slots in them, as came on 1966-1969 RR). I realized the tommy bar is too thick to fit without bending the hubcap permanently. However, I tried using a very large Stanley #20 screwdriver, 16" long (for slotted screws not phillips). This tool has a thinner shaft than the tommy bar, and can remove the hubcap every time with impunity, using the 1 o'clock position with respect to the valve stem. I then put this tool in my car trunk large tools so it will always be there. And catch the hubcap before it hits the pavement! or use a cloth. The screwdriver I use was made in 1959, so you won't find Stanley #20 in the stores now. But any long large flat blade screwdriver ought to work.

My car is early enough that it doesn't have the clocking peg on the hubcaps so the hubcaps will rotate relative to the wheels if the brakes are applied too hastily. Keep an eye on this, lest it chop off your valve stem. Our 88 spur has heavy truck iron type valve stems that are bolted into the wheel, so this can't happen.





2.) Steve, your car is very pretty! I just now saw your photo of the front. On your car, with that colour and that 4 door body design I think I like the mirrors mounted on the wings! It looks perfect! Those are exactly what my car came with, those nice round ones. They don't seem to stick out on your car, but on my car, such a light coloured car, they look terrible! I got some old stock RR mirrors that mount to the window frame with a tiny bracket. I think they use the same round mirrors that were mounted on the fenders. I probably could have just bought the brackets, but they came in a kit with those gorgeous RR boxes with red and brown stripes on them!!!! I had to have all those 6 boxes! And inside were zip lock baggies with silver and red and brown RR and B stripes on them!!! Oh my just thinking about them is fantastic! (I am a brand snob, plus I greatly lament the loss of the Old Company, and think its Kafkaesque how RR sold RR Motors to Vickers, then Vickers sold RR motors to VW, then RR bought Vickers a year afterwards.)

I know what you mean, and agree, about those other shaped mirrors, odd, like a squared off version of Mercedes Benz mirrors, wider at the outboard edge, a design based on utility and visual coverage of the cars behind you.
 

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wow guys.... steve and wraithman a lot of effort in answering spiritofx Questions so 99% correct I did not work on new bodywork at park ward but in the accident repair so I have had a few to do. now you asked what would happen on a colour change this was very expensive because this would involve a total strip out take off the boot lid, bonnet, doors, strip all the parts off crome etc. widows all out, bumper and all chrome trim remove all rubber seals. take out all the boot carpet and strip the boot back you will see you even have to go back to the rear seatbacks they would let you leave the rear rams in place. remove the seal around the engine bay inside the car take out carpets and underpadding door treads off and everything around the door frames.this is so you can never find any old colour anywhere!!!
strip off paint and make good repairs fit back all pannels to make sure all gaps are good. then remove again.place car into PaintShop booth with all panels separate prime and base coat all parts/car etc. door/boot floor/around doors and door shuts to be finished in full colour take it out and fitt all panels back in again this time to paint door hinge bolts if you do not fit chrome bolts. paint the whole outside of the car. this you must remember is a coach-built car it will have holes that have been made bigger or elongated so that it looks good to the eye so no two cars are the same. you ask about the 2ba nuts there is a spanner in the toolbox which is perfect for this job see a picture you can use this everywhere from trim to lights as an apprentice this was tried to your wrist so you did not lose it. side maker red lights/white yes take them off. [in the day owners always wanted the later shadow 2 markers fitted].door crome this is always made of brass on all park ward cars so strip off the bits and have it redone. wheel caps/hubs wraithman is indeed correct in the correct way to remove a shadow wheel disc wheel the spare on the black wheel rim you will see 3 clamps this holds the trim on is to one side of the valve place the t bar of the tool kit there and no damage will happen replacement look at the back of the disc you will see a metal pin make sure that lines up with the hole in the steel rim. BUT spirtofx you do not have this on your car you have an outer ring and a hub cap and your tool kit will have a T bar with a bend on the flat part of it get behind the hub cap at one of the 3 points noted early and lever it off without damaging the out ring or take off the outer ring first. think that all well that 3 hours gone so enough for me. dinner call so no time to reread hope it's clear
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Yes Peever, these guys seem to have spent hours helping me, and I am very grateful, because although I have a wonderful painter of cars, he is not a PMC specialist. Thanks for your input too. So you think I should get rid of the side marker lights entirely and weld up the holes, and make the car without them? (or just to take them off for the respray and then put back on?


I was just looking at the hood, and I have devised a way to make fixtures to hold the hood up and forward of it's usual location. But I noticed the hinges, do they need to come out? What if we just left the hinges in, and used them as the prop for the front edge of the hood. Would this make the hood too high during the painting?

I seem to understand the purpose for holding the hood and trunk up some distance is to allow the area under the hood and trunklids to be painted at the same time? Is that the reason? What if we just painted the hood and trunklid in their fully down latched position? What would happen then?

Sorry guys, I am just pouring it on and on.

I know you guys help so much, perhaps photos of the finished result will be small repayment, and if either of these guys ever wants to visit they may use the car for a day. Come may next year I believe the exterior could be considered perfect. The interior only needs tiny repairs.
 

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The hoods are skinned in aluminum so therefore as large as it is, it's not heavy. It is held in place by 4 fasteners on each side that connect the hinge-to-bonnet. They are fine threaded like everything else. If you're pleased with the gap around the hood, use a finish nail to score around the mounting plate for reference, using this method is almost 100% perfect alignment when re-mounting.
The finish color for the hinges, engine bay and hood underside is matte black. I found Eastwood engine bay spray to be a perfect match, especially in the sheen dept.
 

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Hi,


Definitely leave the hinges in place and do as wraithman says mark around them before taking off as it helps replacement. The doors/boot/trunk are also aluminium skinned too so again lighter to handle and again your painter needs to understand the correct primer processes for these alum items.



I actually use what we call Satin Matt Black under bonnet, it does need a mild sheen finish as pure matt looks awful IMHO.


You can (I would not) paint the hood/bonnet or trunk panels in the fully closed down position and this is where the shut gaps get filled with a foam tape to avoid a definitive sharp line which lining tape does and is for.



Like I said it works for small area repairs but I would never do it for a full repaint job. You can't spray panels in place leaving the gap open as the paint mist goes through the gap as an overspray and finishes more like a crusty dust and feels like sandpaper with no decent surface finish. So no short cuts, the amount of money you will be spending it has to be done right. As long as the panels are set in their typical final orientation to the car for final top coat it does no harm being lifted away.



Anyway you still need to be able to hinge up trunk and bonnet even with the additional temporary spacers in place as the paint needs to go on the inner surfaces too of these panels so essential to retain this access during painting.


Thanks for the offer BTW, will you throw in 1st class return flight tickets :devil(joking)


Are you planning to have a coachline down the side. Not my preference, and I did not replace mine, personally IMHO I think they were only put on top and bottom of the chrome side finisher fitted on the 4 door saloons to hide the imperfections that can occur when the trims were pushed into the clips.


All the best


Steve
 

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Hi all
right side marker lamps this is a personal choice, so it's up to you. if it were me they would be gone.
all this talk of brackets to hold the hood/bonnet up etc if you paint the shuts first with the bonnet/hood off the car then paint the underside of the hood in colour them mask up. fit the hood back on and just open a one-inch gap at the back and spray. same idea with the truck. doors shut if your guy has painted cars before I foresee no problems.
 

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Spiritofx,


All this talk about making stand off brackets comes from my specialist who does full body repaints and does have many pictures showing concours winning cars he has done.


Whilst he also does insurance body repairs this does limit how he is able to approach jobs due to the cheap repairs often insurance companies will only allow payments for and would probably use shortcuts.


My car was done with the 'professional' aproach and I would suspect what you are after too. Even more important on metallics IMHO



It actually won't cost much more to do the job properly and if you want to see pleasing results even when you open your bonnet or boot in the channels then I would take a true experts advice (not mine but my bodyshop) on how to do a job properly.


You will then gets results like mine as shown in the picture.


Steve
 

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https://www.google.com/patents/US20040244683Hi,



Found a picture of a Bentley being transported from the paint shop to the final assembly line. Note the position the boot lid has been supported during paint process.



And someone it seems even applied to patent the idea


A processing means ( 10; 20; 30 ) is disclosed, with which to hold part of a vehicle body ( 1; ... to be sprayed in a spaced relationship, e.g. vehicle doors,boot ..... bonnet of a passenger vehicle open during painting or other manufacturing ..


Fixture for holding a vehicle body part

Abstract


The invention relates to a fixture (10; 20; 30) for holding a vehicle body part (1; 6) during a treating process in vehicle manufacturing, particularly during painting (14; 19a; 22; 23; 33; 34; 35), which are located near the ends of the holder, and are provided for placing between two body parts (1; 2; 6) and for fixing them at a predetermined distance from one another.


Steve
 

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Hi Steve nice to see new modifications to painting in 1970's, of course, we were still using cellulose paint.who would have thought that a robot would paint your cars using water-based paint.and then wrapping it in a plastic wrapper.
times sure do change
mike
 

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Hi,
I will try to answer what I can for you.


I have never removed the glass rear windows from the Corniche but I am sure it will be covered in the workshop manual.

here is mine
Rear glass is easy to remove. Unscrew the wood, then the side panel and you'll then see makes it self-explanatory.
 

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Hi,


Not sure what you mean by the brass parts as the window metal I think is stainless.
The window frames are stainless, a quality stainless polishing kit should make it look brand new, no re-chrome! There is actually almost no chrome on those cars, it's all stainless. Only caution is that your car is a very, very early model, and RR did have the reputation of building those with ''whatever material they had lying around''.
 
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