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I sent this message to a member on this list and I am printing it here in case anyone else can benefit from it. It has been discussed on RROC forum but you must pay some $160 to view that forum.

The new prestone is loaded with acid, and it will destroy the engine, and it will cost $20k to fix properly. I spent 40 minutes writing this for you with links and sources to check out, so make sure you read it.

Here was a technical article written about it. http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/coolantoatwarning.pdf The above article is edited and dumbed down so as to avoid naming names, so you still need to read the rest of what I wrote. I can't link to the forum where this was first discussed because it is a members only forum of the RROC and I am not paying them for membership these days.

Make sure you read all of this. i am not selling anything. I own 30 cars including 2 RR Corniche's. I am not some loser wasting your time. In fact, I am wasting mine if your don't read and heed this.


Although the owners manual specifies prestone as the correct antifreeze, IT IS NOT, and it will ruin the engine. (Do I have your attention?) Prestone WAS correct 40 years ago when the handbook was published, but now, prestone is a different formula. they have added acid salts, to make the coolant long lasting. Acid salts eat away at the cylinder liner seals. These are the seals that keep the oil and water from mixing together in the RR v8 engine. The RR v8 engine is called a wet liner engine, because the cylinders are actually liners, (shaped like 4" sewer pipes), and they have water flowing around them. In the bottom there is oil. There are 3 seals for each liner. Oil on bottom, water on top. With holes in the block so water or oil comes out if any seals are bad. Plugging these holes is not correct. Changing the seals takes 100's of man hours, and lots of expensive parts such as gaskets and seals are needed to reassemble the engine. If done by a professional it costs $10-20k. On a Phantom III it cost $30,000. A RROC member had just rebuilt his Phantom III v12 engine, and wrote a hardcover published book about it in the process, on a special concours winning Phantom III, only to have the prestone coolant ruin the engine within a short time. He sued and I don't know the outcome. But the bottom line is that the acid salts in the coolant, and in any "long life" coolant, will eat the seals for the wet liners. They also attack hose connections and other seals. It has been 5 years since I studied up on this subject so I am a little rusty on the details, but please believe me. I have 2 Corniche cars, both of them with original undamaged engines, and I can attest that using basic coolant causes no harm. (I had prestone in my 69 convertible for about a month before finding out about the problem. I had not driven the car with the prestone. It just sat still. When I found out I flushed it 4 times with water with the engine running then switched to CONVENTIONAL COOLANT. WITHOUT ACID SALTS! It has been fine for the last 5 years. Finding the proper coolant is difficult because you can not go by the color. Just because it is green does not make it safe. Lots of companies are making long life coolants and discontinuing their regular coolants because they say the long life coolants are ok for all vehicles, which I just spent a long time telling you is not true.

I buy coolant at NAPA, and also at discount auto parts. I check the ingredients before purchasing, since you can not trust the label on the bottle. They have Material data safety sheets that show ingredients. They are required to print this out for you if you ask, but it is easier to get online.


The NAPA house brand is made by the manufacturer of PEAK Antifreeze, which is a good company. It is called Old World Industries. You may find the PEAK brand in other stores, but you must check the msds sheet to make sure you get the right one.

WHAT TO BUY

This is what you should buy from NAPA:

It is called NAPA antifreeze/coolant. On the napa website part # NAF 1GAL.

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NAF1GAL_0006411522&An=0


The good coolant that you want to buy, will show this for the ingredients on the MSDS sheet.

Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 90-95 50 ppm 50 ppm
Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6 0-5 None None
Di Potassium Phosphate
7758-11-4 1-2 None None

In the above ingredients, you see nothing about acid.

you can also buy coolant from bentley if you are not sure about the stuff you have available locally. Bring your banker and accountant with you, though, to make sure they approve of the purchase.


********************************************************************************************************************

********************************************************************************************************************
How to IdentifyTHE BAD STUFF

WHAT NOT TO BUY



You can not buy from Prestone. They simply don't make compatible coolant. In fact most major manufacturers don't promote the older tech coolants because they are not as profitable.

THIS NEXT ONE IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF THE THINGS NOT TO BUY AT NAPA, and other places as well...

The bad one is called Napa EXTENDED LIFE Antifreeze/coolant.
https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NAF1EXT_0000999999&An=0

Now, I will show you an example of a bad coolant ingredients on an msds sheet:

Water 7732-18-5 49-50 None None
Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 45-48 50 ppm 50 ppm
Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6 < 3 None None
Organic acid salts proprietary < 3 10mg/m3 1mg/m3

In the above, you will notice the acid salts. Also notice the organic acid. That is the organic acid technology that you must avoid.

You must also avoid HOAT, or HYBRID ORGANIC ACID TECHNOLOGY, which was originally marketed towards mercedes and chrysler but is now prevalent everywhere.

But realize, both napa and discount auto parts sell coolant that is bad. In fact, mostly they sell the new, bad type of coolant. You have to make sure you get the right one.

These are the things you must avoid:

acid
acid salts
organic acid
organic acid technology
OAT
hybrid organic acid
hybrid organic acid technology
HOAT
long life
extended life
Dexcool
Prestone
orange color
red color
any other non green color
 
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I highly recommend Mercedes-Benz coolant as it is phosphate-free, silicate-free, and contains buffers that hold the pH neutral for about 3 years. This is very important as high pH (alkaline) coolant and/or coolants that contain phosphates can eat away at aluminum. I also recommend Audi/VW brand coolant as it is identical in composition.

It is very important to mix your coolant with distilled water that can be bought inexpensively at Walmart to keep minerals from forming deposits and reacting with the different metals in your cooling system.

IMO, money saved by putting in a less expense coolant that contains phosphates and silicates and mixing it with tap water is often lost in the long run with clogged and corroded components replacement, possible overheating, and additional coolant flushes.
 

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I will switch from Extended Life antifreeze when anyone can cite a single, credible instance of an engine being harmed by current extended life formulations by any manufacturer.

It is a fact that there were some disasters from the very earliest DexCool formulations, and even those were noted as not being meant for other than post 1996 model cars.

I am a member of the U.S. RROC and every bit of "received wisdom" on this issue comes from "friend of a friend"-type sources. That the occasional car will have seal failures after 30 or more years is not exceptional regardless of the make. It's even more suspect to blame it on antifreeze which the manufacturers clearly state is fit for all makes and models. The legal liability they would be subject to were that to turn out not to be the case would be staggering, and that kind of claim is not made "off the cuff."

I've now heard from more than enough individuals who have been using extended life (of the non-DexCool formulations) antifreeze in Crewe-built cars for periods of years now with no ill effects.

When someone can show me the science and tests that confirm the "extended life antifreeze kills our engines" thesis then I'll listen. So far the "on the street" evidence suggests otherwise.
 

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Acid coolant

I think the manufacturers put in some small amount of acids and/or salts to keep the system clean inside for a longer period of time. So the system needn't be flushed yearly. Many people tend to forget it...

As far as i'm concearned it is impossible that a small amount of acid can "eat through a headgasket" :shock:....or any gasket...especially not a Rolls Royce gasket :wink:.

The modern additives are result of research and grown insight. They are developed for our convenience.


:arrow:
 

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Re: Acid coolant

Sure we can debate acid, salt, other items, etc or not, yet imho the Benz coolant is the way to go. Your coolant and oil are the 'life blood' of your car. As such, all hoses, pumps, fluids, etc in that eco-system should always be working at proper levels and be reliable.
 

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Oh, dear heaven, the myth that will not die and should have died years ago!

I have been using long-life coolant or lifetime coolant in my Shadow Era cars for over 10 years now with zero negative effects. I have written on this extensively, as have several chemists.

The problem was with a specific ingredient, used in high concentration (relatively speaking) in the original DexCool coolant formulations. And that ingredient was 2-EHA. There are scads of long life and lifetime coolants that are 2-EHA free.
 

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So this person is saying that you can not use prestone of any formulation, not even the old faithful green stuff? He says they have changed the formula...why? It worked fine for decades. Brian, you're calling BS on this one. I have never personally heard of this destructive anti freeze, I think this thread will cause more confusion than actually helping anyone.
 

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The issue is the difference between IAT (Inorganic Acid Technology) and OAT (Organic Acid Technology) antifreezes. IAT was the historic "green stuff" from Prestone and other manufacturers. Environmental considerations have pushed the industry to OAT formulations. There are some IAT antifreezes still available but 1) you can't tell by the color (green can be either), 2) it is almost impossible to tell from the information on the containers and 3) any "long life" antifreeze is almost guaranteed to be OAT. It is an EXTREMELY emotional topic :) with a lot of "expert" information out there. The issue is far more acute for pre-war honeycomb radiators that are silver soldered together.
 

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So then the short question is....which some to use in a silver shadow? The NAPA stuff mentioned earlier or what? Or does it not matter in the Silver Shadow variants? I would venture a guess that most Shadow owners are not chemists.
 

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Jonny,

If you search on my member ID and coolant and/or antifreeze I've discussed this until I'm blue in the face and provided a lot of reference material.

The short version: Long life and lifetime coolants are not problematic, in any way, in the V8 engines since at least the Cloud period (and I'd venture the sixes that preceded them) IF they do not contain 2-EHA. I have been using Peak Global Lifetime in LRK37110 from the first change I did after acquiring her in 2012. I will be changing the long life (and I cannot recall the specific brand, I think it was Recochem) in SRH33576 to Peak Global Lifetime on the next change.

All it takes is a single counterexample to falsify any assertion. And the assertion that it is dangerous and damaging to use long life or lifetime coolants in the Cloud and later series cars has had multiple examples that have falsified that particular assertion. And these are people who, like my self, have been using them for over a decade. I first put long life coolant in SRH33576 in 2011 and have never had any issue since.

There is a significant difference in how quickly old-type IAT coolants lay down the protective layer on the "bare metal" in a new engine than OAT does, but that's really about it. And in the case of our cars, that protective layer already exists, and OAT neither washes it away nor creates a new one "from scratch."

For both environmental and "amount of work" reasons I don't want to be changing the coolant in any of my vehicles, including the RRs, any more frequently than is needed to prevent issues. And that means going to more modern coolants which, if 2-EHA free, are perfectly safe and suitable.

I could have sworn that I did a post once that was a round-up of all of the research I'd done on this issue, including input from several chemists, but I cannot for the life of me find a direct reference to this in my own archive.

Mr. Watts is absolutely correct that, at this point in time, dye color in a given brand or line of coolant should NOT be used as the determiner whether it's safe or not. But it's easy to find perfectly suitable coolants in virtually any Walmart, Autozone, NAPA, Advance Auto Parts, or other common auto parts store.
 

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So then the short question is....which some to use in a silver shadow? The NAPA stuff mentioned earlier or what? Or does it not matter in the Silver Shadow variants? I would venture a guess that most Shadow owners are not chemists.
You can use just about any coolant you like (except for DexCool) as long as you:

1) Don't mix the two
2) Don't leave it too long

Don't get too hung up on the colors. That's just a dye. Just make sure that you flush the system and use distilled or de-ionized water as minerals in tap water in some regions can do more damage than any coolant.
 

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Thanks Gents for the explanation, I do appreciate the clarification.

Jon
 
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