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Discussion Starter #1
Got caught out a couple of days ago attempting to reverse uphill to get out of a parking bay, every time I put the car in reverse the park brake came off soon as I let my foot off the brake the car rolled forward (silver spirit 2) ended up left foot on brake right foot on accelerator.

So am I missing something?
Is the correct method to hold the park brake on until you get your foot on the accelerator?
Dont seem to have the problem with the car driving off uphill?

Didnt want to try any home grown solution conscious of burning out autobox, brit driver so apologies to our American cousins with auto transmissions in their blood

John :?
 

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You're not necessarily doing anything wrong.

First, these cars are very heavy, which makes a big difference in their tendency to roll a bit if you're on a steep incline. I (yes, that "ugly American") drive nothing but cars with automatic transmissions and live in a town that's one steep hill after another. All of them can and will roll slightly either forward or backward when attempting to start on a steep incline, depending on if the front of the car is pointed downward or upward on the incline, respectively.

Keeping your foot on the brake until you've had a chance to hit the accelerator is one solution on a steep incline, and the most commonly used one. You will also eventually learn how quickly you must get to the accelerator from the brake to avoid roll(back/forward), which can only be successful in certain instances.

I find the tiny bit of roll(back/forward) on a strong incline in an automatic far easier to manage than working a parking brake, clutch, and accelerator all at once for the same situation in a stick shift. It's been quite a few years since I last drove one, and I really don't miss it.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #3
rolling

Hi Brian

Thanks for info, I thought I was losing my marbles, it is Scotland so we spend our lives either climbing up hills or braking going down.
The one in particular is pretty steep and even in a stick shift you need to be on the money to get it right, so guess wwho will be avoiding that spot next time in town.
Its bad enough in an ordinary car but when you know the world is watching you it does focus the mind.

cheers

John
 

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Hi John, my 87 Turbo R doesn't have the auto release on the parking brake but I think your car is later so might have? I think it releases as soon as you take the gearlever out of park so if that's the case you'd need one foot on the stop pedal and the other on the loud pedal ready when you engage reverse, I've not driven a later model but this is how I've imagined the system to work?
I've noticed in mine as a result of a combination of weight and a slow tickover you need your foot on the brake to prevent roll back on hills where in my other autos they'll sit all day on the same hill feet off, if you see what I mean.
Hope this makes sense/helps
Graham
 

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Why are you not using your hand (foot) brake?

Ive the Bentley eight and when on hills etc i use both the park selected gear and the hand (foot operated hand brake)

I select "R" and you can feel the car take up the reverse and then i take the hand brake off and all's as it should be And the car starts to move,
It's the same if i want to go forward, "try using the hand brake last and you'll see the difference.

To test this is correct "by the hand book way of parking or wanting to move off a hill,
The next time you want to stop & park (use the handbrake) before you select park and you'll notice the car wont move an inch when you turn the engine off.

This is what the hand brakes for, (to hold the vehicle & stop it rolling forward or backwards.
 

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This is what the hand brakes for, (to hold the vehicle & stop it rolling forward or backwards.
So does the footbrake.

I never use my parking (hand) brake.

With many modern automatics you cant get the box into gear unless you have your foot on the brake. This is so that the car doesnt drive off when you select D or R.

You start the engine, put foot on brake, select D or R and then at the same time as you increase the revs you let your foot off the brake. If you are on a hill, you increase the reves until you feel the gearbox take up the power and try to move and then take your foot off the brake.

On my Bentley 8, once I have taken the key out of the ignition, the car will not move even if it is N.
 

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Hello ,
and thanks for your comments,
Two things here (a) whats the "hand brake for (foot operated hand brake)?

If in the uk you rolled back or forwards whilst taking your driving test you'd fail,

Try what ive said and use the hand brake to hold the vehicle until you've selected "D OR R OR 1,2"

Just think what your asking the car to do when you remove the select from "P"
Your telling the car you no longer want the park section "hence" you've removed the select to what you do want the car to do "But as soon as you remove from P the possition thats it parking over" and the next sect will go into force.

And as for using two feet on an automatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this really is a big NO NO,

Again if you get into this habbit of braking and excellerating at the same time you' just may do this when an emergency stop is needed for real,

the idea of an auto/gear box is to have a vehicle thats safe to use and changes gear at the correct engine rev's
And not to be braking and excellerating at the same time.

One last point, when i got my Bentley it had been owned by a wealthy man and spent most of its life parked,
One of the items that needed to be sorted out via the selling agents was (HAND BRAKE )
because of it not being used.

The only time i use my left foot (ive a right hand drive) is to take the hand brake off.

Have a think about what ive said, try using the hand brake on hill starts and i know you'll solve your problem .

PS MAYBE YOUR ENGINE IDLE SPEED NEEDS LOOKING AT?
Again when i start the engine from cold it speeds up for a while until the engine is at normal temp but the point im making here is the car will move off a little quicker if the engine speed is going that little bit faster,
maybe if your's is not at the correct revs your not getting the that hold on the gear selected and your finding you need to provide this extra rev motion via using your foot on the excellerater?? Just a point to consider.
 

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Just think what your asking the car to do when you remove the select from "P"
Whatever brake you use is stopping the car from moving.
P is for Park..ie Parking..You dont have to use it. You can leave the car in N and use the parking brake.

Whats the difference between holding foot on foot brake or using handbrake when moving selector from P? Both are stoping the car from moving.

Do you use your parking brake every time you stop at a junction?

Its far easier to use footbrake to hold car when selecting drive and then take foot off brake to move away than it is to fiddle around under the dash trying to find the lever to release the handbrake.

And as for using two feet on an automatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this really is a big NO NO,

Again if you get into this habbit of braking and excellerating at the same time you' just may do this when an emergency stop is needed for real,
Rubbish. Nobody said anything about braking and accelerating at the same time. When using a clutch you release the pedal until the the clutch "bites" and at the same time you increase revs.... the only difference with an automatic is that you are using you left foot on the brake and not the clutch.
I very much doubt that any driver is likely to slam their foot on the throttle when braking.. if you are that confused about the use of pedals i suggest you stop driving.
The brake pedal in auto cars is usually a lot bigger than a brake pedal in a manual car so you can use both feet on it at the same time...
 

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Right Gremlin,

As always on these threads we get what is an reply someone dislikes and then the insults come out,

If you go back to the topic and what was said you'll see that the O.P says "he then went on to use the floor brake with one foot and place the other foot on the excellerator!!!!!!!

What the hell do you think he was doing with both feet being on two peddles?

The stop brake works to stop the car,
the (hand brake) is for holding the vehicle so it cant roll, Your not going to use any brake pads when using the hand brake so its not wearing anything out,
Dont you think this is an extra safe item thats well worth having ?
If you have kids and they get into the vehicle and move the select stick & the vehicle's correct hand brake isn't in use !!!!
you've a good chance of that vehicle rolling (lets hope for those who say they never use this brake that no kids are behind such a 3 ton vehicle if this should happen;

ref saying about driving two feet with the "stick change"
is a completly different way of the gear box being used.

Ive no problems driving and having passed my test at 17 and now 65 and always had clean licence's both HGV CLASS 1 and car /motor cycle & holding the C.P.C dont think i need the likes of you to start throwing out comments ref
me being confused ref what peddles to use

But i did attend a road accident that later proved that the driver had tried to change gear doing 50mph in an automatic car due to his forgetting it was just that "Automatic" (a very nasty scene) and the death of his daughter.


And ref you saying that you can use both feet on an auto/ brake peddle because its bigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you should re-read what your saying before you press submit.


And as a final point , dont you use the hand brake on a manual when your doing a hill start????????????

Then why the hell is it such an issue to use the hand brake on an automatic????????????

If you want to drive safe use the brakes as intended

Ive a hand brake provided and i intend to use it as i do when needed

iF YOU FEEL SO SAFE NOT USING IT,,,,,,,,???? Fine,
But keep the insults to yourself they're not welcome a bit daft and not called for.
:idea:
 

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If you have kids and they get into the vehicle and move the select stick & the vehicle's correct hand brake isn't in use !!!!
you've a good chance of that vehicle rolling
The car wont move if I have my foot on the brake either will it? thats why I have my foot on it. Its a brake to stop the car moving If my car had a parking brake that could be released with my foot I would also have my foot on a brake so whats the difference? be it parking brake or foot brake its got to be released at some time, and if fro some odd reason a person has cranked the revs up, its going to go off at a rate of knotts.
The release for my parking brake is under the dash.... what If I was leaning forward to release it and somebody smahed into the back of my car? I get a facefull of steering wheel. P is for park.... it locks the gearbox The car doesnt move, just like a parking brake....
The car will only creep (if at all) without any throttle.

I have been driving just as long as you.

and another reason I have my foot on the brake is so that hopefully people coming up beging me can see the brake lights and that I am stationary by

I have a feeling that learners are not told the handbrake must be used every time they stop.
I do apoloogise re the remark about using feet. it was meant as a generalisation and not personal.
 

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Just to add to all this , as the parking brake pads are approximately 2 inches square I would never rely on them to hold the car on an incline , if they have recently been adjusted they may hold the car, if adjustment is out, doubt very much they will. On later models the parking brake is released as soon as drive is engaged . I was always led to believe that the safest way to manoeuvre an auto is with 2 feet so that the brake is covered in case the car lurches off. I have always driven auto with 2 feet never had a problem .
 

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Im going to say it once again and hope you just give it a try,

(a) the park brake will only hold whilst its connected to park and as soon as you take it off the car moves,
(b) The hand brake also only holds the 3 ton car when applied,

Now if you keep the hand brake "ON" put the select into revers you should feel the revs take up and the cars ready to move as soon as you are,
It's now you release the hand brake,

Its now your in controle for the vehicle moving and up to now the vehicle hasn't rolled back an inch because you've had the hand brake holding the full car,

You didnt have a split second space between taking the car out of "PARK" and into selected gear so the car cant move.

If you do the above you'll soon see that you've now not moved until you are ready and the hand brakes taken off;

answer me this question and you'll understand what im saying,

If you parked your car over night and in the morning you want to start up the engine where is the select stick, and why cant you just start up and drive off right away?

Would it be anything to do with the fact that the dash lights are telling you the brakes are not ready, the subspension isnt ready,

Do you still think a hand brakes not needed to be used?


I dont find it any trouble bending down to release the hand brake "pull lever" or to open the bonnet using the pull lever for that,
And ref worry about people running into the back of my car and injury

"Well" what a hell of a time you must have driving!

The days i worried about the car being a target was during my army days serving in northern ireland and i didnt enjoy that threat everytime i needed to use a vehicle thank god those days have gone but since my army days and all the threats and worries i can honestly say ive seen more nasty sites caused by drivers as a para medic than i ever saw in 5 tours of northern ireland and all of the road accidents proved to be some ones fault, ie vehicle's not being road worthy or drink/drugs or kids taking vehicles having never taken a test.

Im very keen on the roads being a safe place and any advice i know is true ref doing the job 100% SAFE then i'll say so,

using your brakes is a good thing, but for people to say they dont use the hand brake!!!! Well what more can i say.


Just an added bit ref brakes and using them,
One of the most called out type of accident was to do with farming
and the way the tractor brakes are used is a bit different when used in muddy / slippery conditions,

What i mean by using in a different way is this,

the tractor brake peddle has a bar that connects two peddles together,
the idea being that when the tractor is being road used this bar is connected so when you put your foot down on the brake peddle all four wheals are braked. "Nothing different here"

But if working in ice or muddy conditions you can remove this locking bar off the peddles so now you"ve two seperate peddles and if you need to lock one set of wheels on lets say the right side of the tractor you apply the right peddle and the vehicle will turn to the left or by applying the opposit peddle then the tractor will turn to the right.

I just thought i'd mention this different way of using the brake system
But one thing about tractors and brakes !
Its recommended that the hand brake is used when ever your not in the tractor applying ploughs etc,

Well ive said enough ref this topic and i'll leave it up to the people who have the problem of rolling backwards to do as they see fit and use the brakes the way they feel is correct, after all it's your car .
 

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My car is left overmight in "P" No handbrake. it wont run away even it it was left in neutral or drive because the transmission is locked.

I start the car and wait for dash lights to go out, (which doesnt apply to all automatics) the car will still not move until I select D or R and to stop the car creeping I put my foot on the brake. When I want to drive off I take my foot off the brake and use the throttle.

So why in your opinion is using my foot brake any different to using the parking brake? Either way the brake is stopping the car moving until I want it too.

(a) the park brake will only hold whilst its connected to park and as soon as you take it off the car moves,
(b) The hand brake also only holds the 3 ton car when applied,



(a) Assuming you mean "P" then your car wont move when deselected because you have your handbrake on. Neither will my car because when I deselect "P" I have my foot on the footbrake.
(b) Thats generally the way they do work.

I'm not saying that the way you chose to do it is wrong, but the fact that I use my footbrake to stop the car moving instead of the handbrake doesnt make me wrong. Perhaps in your opinion it might. Do you apply your handbrake every time you stop when when driving through rush hour traffic???
Now if you keep the hand brake "ON" put the select into revers you should feel the revs take up and the cars ready to move as soon as you are,
It's now you release the hand brake,
Not all automatics take up the drive as soon as a gear is selected. Especially from cold. With some cars, if you stopped at traffic lights and selected P or N and back to D when you wanted to move, the drive will not take up until you have gained a few revs. When I stop my Mercedes it drops to second gear (4 speed box) If you want it to fly you start to pull away and then kick it down to first.
 

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This is all The Hand Book states
i have only used the P Brake on a Ferry when the weather was Bad

in the Aston (semi Auto) when the car is at traffic lights or waiting to pull out you have to use both Feat to stop the car as it Automatic finds Neutral
my old Bentley 87 when she some times had the Hump and Tick over was Low i also had to use both feet
the hand brake pads are of smiler size as a Jaguar XJS so you don't really use it as the Pads would brake away from the backing plate
i would not concern your self about what the grumpy old man has to say he is just Grumpy
 

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motorman said:
Got caught out a couple of days ago attempting to reverse uphill to get out of a parking bay, every time I put the car in reverse the park brake came off soon as I let my foot off the brake the car rolled forward (silver spirit 2) ended up left foot on brake right foot on accelerator.

So am I missing something?
John :?
Well John, this would be as, I say is the correct method especially when ones car is equipped with auto release foot operated park brakes. You can not rely on the auto trans holding its own on an incline, however if your idle is a little low this would effect the trans holding ability on a steeper than normal incline. Nothing wrong with twin foot brake pushing, done this when being towed with the engine off :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for all the info.
I think I will stick with the two feet approach as this is the only solution given the park brake auto releases when you move out of park, and don't trust two inch pads to hold the car stationary if I apply the brake and hold down after auto release

Many thanks again for info

John
 

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Hello gremlin (we really must stop meeting like this,
Now once again this same problem from the O.P and it was said he rolls back when he's on a hill & trying to select a gear from "P"

Your saying use the foot brake to stop this and with the other foot excellerate enough to hold the vehicle or stop it from rolling!!!

Im saying as the hand book also says use the hand brake to hold the vehicle until the engine has engaged the gear,

Also the hand book points out that when the engine is first started up the revs will be higher hence the engine is going faster and this can cause the vehicle "when its first put into any of the gears to surge forward or backwards due to the higher revs,
By using the hand brake your giving yourself the time to see whats the traffic doing "ie can you start your maneuver and when the hand brake is taken off you've enough power to start you off,

Ive tried "today" your method of using two feet and to be honest it felt very odd sitting there in this possition,

Now you've asked what i do when in traffic,
Well im not trying to stop the car rolling backwards and this is what we're talking, but when in traffic and i have short delays i use "N" and one foot on the brake,
When im able to continue moving i select "D" or 1 depending on if im able to drive a good distance or if it's just a few yards then it's "1" once the gear is engagaed i remove from brake peddle and that foot then is on the excellerater and because ive the correct power from the engine the car starts to go forward and then i give it more excelleration as needed.
I have no need to use two feet.

Now im talking about the "BENTLEY EIGHT OR ROLLS AUTOMATIC CARS"
and not any other make, they are not all the same ie i did once have a ford scorpio and that gear box when towing had a device that if the engine was labouring up steep gradiants it had an oil blow out system that did just that "released oil rather than cause exspansion in the gear box (thats what fords service dept told me,

So all ive had to say "backed by the hand book" is to do with BENTLEY/ROLLS And no other cars I only drive these cars these days and wouldnt have a clue ref merc or any other makes.
 
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