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Discussion Starter · #261 ·
Japanese drive on the left, the reflectors are going to direct the light towards oncoming traffic in countries where they drive on the right.
it is more complicated. the car has steering wheel on the left, so there is tinny chance (if they cheated) that headlights are actually suitable for european traffic. So my question is: if the headlights are according to japanesse rules, so proper ones, must I replace reflectors also or lenses only?
 

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Discussion Starter · #262 ·
aaah, i can see from FLYER34's post that reflectors must be changed also, otherwise there would be no option for LHD and RHD reflectors.
 

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I don't know the answer for RR, but it's usually the lenses. Better to check part numbers at intro spares or flying parts. They will list reflectors LHD and RHD I'd they exist
 

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Discussion Starter · #264 ·
I don't know the answer for RR, but it's usually the lenses. Better to check part numbers at intro spares or flying parts. They will list reflectors LHD and RHD I'd they exist
yeah they do exist. so i need roughly 1000 eur to replace both lenses and reflectors. not something to give up.

The only concern now is Wraithman's warning that the car, which was not in use for many years, rings a red alarm. People, I have realized that there will be no perfect RR for 25K eur, so I guess i will always risk. sometimes this will be imperfect paint, some rust on body and below, damaged interior ...
 

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no, car has nothing but paid custom duty in belgium. I guess all taxes are paid with this. Otherwise the car cannot be sold, that's how i was told.
What about putting a belgian technical inspection as condition for the transaction ?
To register the car about anywhere in EU you need a valid technical inspection.
A valid belgian technical inspection, less than 6 month old, is accepted to register a car in France, for example.
 

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Would they be encline to give you a 6 months warranty on engine, transmission, hydraulic and main components ?
As far as I understand they are professionals ?

AN SZ is less sensitive tan an SY to long period of inactivity.
Depends if it as not been started at all for many years or at least started few times.

As all used cars, you will have surprises. Keep a budget for this.
Then you have to make soon a decision, at least to visit the car and discuss face to face the price if you are ready to buy it.

have they any document on the car, invoices... what is the recent story of the car, how long they own it, what have they done....
 

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Maybe it's me but I see that all these requests to put as a condition of the sale have a likeliness of zero possibility. The seller just wants to sell a car, your import process and requirements are your problem and not theirs.

Even my mobile phone is not covered by an international warranty, and the manufacturer sells the same phone all over the world. If you have concerns, just move on or pay ~$1000 for a Rolls Royce specialist to come out and inspect it.

If you're looking for a guarantee, I can provide you with a rock solid, air tight, international guarantee that you won't find a trouble free 30 year old English car no matter how much you look, how much you pay, or who you buy it from.

It's best to make your assessment or pay an expert to assess it for you if it makes you feel more comfortable as once the deal is done, they sold it and you own it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #268 ·
What about putting a belgian technical inspection as condition for the transaction ?
To register the car about anywhere in EU you need a valid technical inspection.
A valid belgian technical inspection, less than 6 month old, is accepted to register a car in France, for example.
I think I know what you mean. I have discussed it with seller already. He says he can provide belgian papers for me but this means the car must pass technical inspection. It can be done by them however it is not totally clear what the price would be. after that I stopped to talk about it and I concentrated into my sources here: so I am able to get a status of old-timer (for me and for car :)), and then I must pass a so called homologation process where they will find out that headlights and tires must be replaced. And maybe some more things. Once again, the seller was not convincing when we talked about it. In contrast, there is another car imported from germany, and I have two prices for it: price for it as it is (22,5k) and price with german papers which includes new headlights (ca 27k). So there things are clear but the seller is much less approachable, he does not have time to make pictures from below, etc. Buying an old car is actually most humiliating thing in the world: For an old wreck one must also "clean somebody's other shoes on the knees" instead to be opposite.
 

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Discussion Starter · #269 ·
Would they be encline to give you a 6 months warranty on engine, transmission, hydraulic and main components ?
As far as I understand they are professionals ?

AN SZ is less sensitive tan an SY to long period of inactivity.
Depends if it as not been started at all for many years or at least started few times.

As all used cars, you will have surprises. Keep a budget for this.
Then you have to make soon a decision, at least to visit the car and discuss face to face the price if you are ready to buy it.

have they any document on the car, invoices... what is the recent story of the car, how long they own it, what have they done....
like Alabbasi says, I tell you, no chance. You cannot discuss with anybody about anything. Not more than 5 seconds. The approach of all these sellers is simple: take it or leave it. Somebody else will take it. they can afford to sell any car for 5 or more years. they simply do not care, there will always be one idiot who will take the car after so much time and he will even be in panic that someone will not outpass him. I am afraid that is me.

I have much smaller fear about putting money into a car once the car is mine. It is simply because I have already went through it with my w140. I am more inhibited in buying process because there is always a chance that i literally throw the money through the window. So, throwing the money through the window on one side, and investing into parts/work on the other side are two completly different things to me, even if it is about the money in both cases. Psychology.

Like I told you; there is no known history for these cars from Japan. I can see a pattern, it is always the same: "Sir, the car is standing still for several years, you will have to make a service before driving it."

take it or leave it. There was one car which we inspected together with the seller over WhatsApp. I asked him to make a pump test for engine off/contact on. Yupi, both brake lights went off after 30 seconds. however when he shut of the engine and turned the key again only to give a contact, one of the lights was already on. before that the car run for a minute for sure. This is only an example of the fact that i will not get a car with everything working. In practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #270 · (Edited)
Maybe it's me but I see that all these requests to put as a condition of the sale have a likeliness of zero possibility. The seller just wants to sell a car, your import process and requirements are your problem and not theirs.

Even my mobile phone is not covered by an international warranty, and the manufacturer sells the same phone all over the world. If you have concerns, just move on or pay ~$1000 for a Rolls Royce specialist to come out and inspect it.

If you're looking for a guarantee, I can provide you with a rock solid, air tight, international guarantee that you won't find a trouble free 30 year old English car no matter how much you look, how much you pay, or who you buy it from.

It's best to make your assessment or pay an expert to assess it for you if it makes you feel more comfortable as once the deal is done, they sold it and you own it.
I completely agree. Like I wrote above:take it or leave it, and sellers know somebody will take the car and they will get rid of it with smallest possible effort. I never have expected to find a 30 old car which will be 100%. Never ever even for a second. I am a car-guy and I consider myself as extremely practical person, my knowledge about RR cars is 3%, however, I am far away from average modern man who most probably does not know where the battery of his car is situated exactly and how to replace it.

Like I wrote many times: there is no chance to bring a RR expert to help me to buy a car. First, I do not know anybody, second, i am not ready to pay every time 1000 eur for an inspection. after checking ten cars this would be a half of the price, this is something which i cannot accept.
 

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Discussion Starter · #271 ·
BTW, even if i get belgian papers for the car, this must pass some sort of examination here, this is for sure now. Most probable this examination is milder than in case without belgian papers. Getting or not getting belgian papers is not my concern therfore. in addition, i would put new tires anyway on this car. it is 500 eur and I am calm for another 6 years, so no problem anyway. Changing the lights is not a problem as well, parts are available and I can sell old lights into Australia, USA, Japan ... (ebay most probably).

i think I must "force" the seller to make a car check over WhatsApp, at least I will know if AC is working and how the dash brake lights behave. I believe the interior is one of the best available on market. I will repair/repaint locally the body where necessary. I will also make replacement of all fluids/filters, etc. Is replacing of hydraulic fluid and bleeding a super difficult task?
 

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I understand more clearly. There are many good points and some bad. Globaly I see more good points.

If the seller is ready to make a local MOT, my opinon is go, visit it, and be ready to take it et the best price you could get it. You can always make a firm offer to take it as it is before travelling, once you have MOT report.

My advise is to buy it with at least an MOT to know what is ok and not ok.

No need to turn more around, we will still be discussing there next year !

Move, or forget it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #273 ·
I understand more clearly. There are many good points and some bad. Globaly I see more good points.

If the seller is ready to make a local MOT, my opinon is go, visit it, and be ready to take it et the best price you could get it. You can always make a firm offer to take it as it is before travelling, once you have MOT report.

My advise is to buy it with at least an MOT to know what is ok and not ok.

No need to turn more around, we will still be discussing there next year !

Move, or forget it.
yes, this is actually a good idea. seller will most probably charge a lot for MOT or he will refuse it. But this is actually the only clever solution. it may very easily happen that I will refuse to pay for MOT in advance before I see the car. If I go there and first see the car, it is more complicated. anyway, the facts are known, we'll see ...
 

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Fully agree with Jean.
These sellers will never find a buyer taking the car without any kind of independant inspection.
A belgian "contrôle technique" MUST be part of the deal (imho, of course).
As seen earlier, this car left Japan in december 2019.
It is still for sale by mid-2021 (and price has been lowered....).
Do not be fooled by sellers arguments : these cars are hard to sell ; buyers are few and far between.
 

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Do not be fooled by sellers arguments : these cars are hard to sell ; buyers are few and far between.
True, the majority of old luxury cars are hard to sell. They're an unnecessary item that's likely to be 4th or 5th vehicle of the new owner.

Will that impact the sellers decision making process? Some buyers seem to think that sellers should automatically drop their trousers every time an inquiry is made. I don't think that this is the case for many sellers who have the means to keep a car for a while and don't have the time for BS. Buyers need to also show some skin in the game. If they want an inspection, they can arrange one. If it's too much work for them, it's too much work for the seller who is likely to deal with 10-100x more of the same BS before the car sells.
 

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Discussion Starter · #276 ·
True, the majority of old luxury cars are hard to sell. They're an unnecessary item that's likely to be 4th or 5th vehicle of the new owner.

Will that impact the sellers decision making process? Some buyers seem to think that sellers should automatically drop their trousers every time an inquiry is made. I don't think that this is the case for many sellers who have the means to keep a car for a while and don't have the time for BS. Buyers need to also show some skin in the game. If they want an inspection, they can arrange one. If it's too much work for them, it's too much work for the seller who is likely to deal with 10-100x more of the same BS before the car sells.
Exactly. I think I know the point. I am not in love with this car so i will not drop my trousers neither. This is a big advantage of mine. So the title of the game will be: "hey, seller, show me how much do you want to get rid of the car."
I can forget on any inspection, because like i told you I do not know anybody who knows RR cars. I just trust into low mileage and my mechanical engineering sense in addition to 40 years of experiences with motorbikes and cars (do not laugh, I know that RR is not a car, but still ...).

The underneath was painted additionally but not just recently. if you look the transmission pan then it is evident that there is some 30 years old patina resprayed with black colour. There is some cable below it in the picture and due to the contact between it and the pan there is some rust, so there passed some time after the painting. The same effect is evident around the spring in the picture. The area near the spring is darker (more black) than the rest, so somebody did something. I hoped that you will tell me if this looks like a trap or not.

To continue: i can speak with the seller to make "brake pumping" test and some more details on WhatsApp. If this is positive, i will ask him to make a MOT. I am not sure yet how will I say it but i am not moving out of my house onto a 1100 km long trip without a MOT. After MOT is done, I can risk and travel there. There will be more RR cars on my way in Germany and Belgium/Netherlands. This is a plan now. Most probably I will be rejected because seller will say that I must pay in advance for the MOT. But I will not, because we all know what (who) is the only thing which has to be paid in advance. I will of course also try to lower the price of the car itself. I guess i will have to improvise or even make a new plan. First I have to speak with the seller who sounds ok and reasonable. I cannot lose anything because i do not have anything to lose. He can lose a serious buyer. If you ask me what do I expect, then the answer is Nothing. In translation it means that this car is not meant for me in such case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #278 ·
This car has been for sale since december 2019, sellers have started to drop their.... price :



from 29k€ to 24 k€.
so my chances to drop the price are zero i guess. to be honest, if the car is not a lemon, then the current price is not as much in comparison to what can one get on the market in these days. i tell you.
 

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MOT in France is less than 100 € , apparently about 75 € in Belgium
This is indeed a responsability and an engagement for the guy who does it.
Very risky to cheat

Make it simple, MOT is a condition non negotiable,

MOT seems valid one year in Belgium.

Tell him you will make an offer once you know the result of MOT. If he does not want to pay for it , forget the car.
If MOT reveal small issues, you may buy the car, if it reveals serious issues make clear you will nit buy the car.

DO not buy the car or pay in advance a part without MOT result. You need to be fully free to buy or not the car based on MOT result. No advance, even if they say they pay you back.

I looked again at picture, car has been resprayed black, not so well, but probably because of rust.
Rust maybe because it was badly stored during 6 years ? outside ?

Brake pump test concerns the brake spheres, not so expensive to replace. Interesting test but MOT is much more important
MOT or not MOT, that is the key point .

Flyer is totally right, those cars in Europe are very difficult to sell, the market is small and very slow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #280 ·
MOT in France is less than 100 € , apparently about 75 € in Belgium
This is indeed a responsability and an engagement for the guy who does it.
Very risky to cheat

Make it simple, MOT is a condition non negotiable,

MOT seems valid one year in Belgium.

Tell him you will make an offer once you know the result of MOT. If he does not want to pay for it , forget the car.
If MOT reveal small issues, you may buy the car, if it reveals serious issues make clear you will nit buy the car.

DO not buy the car or pay in advance a part without MOT result. You need to be fully free to buy or not the car based on MOT result. No advance, even if they say they pay you back.

I looked again at picture, car has been resprayed black, not so well, but probably because of rust.
Rust maybe because it was badly stored during 6 years ? outside ?

Brake pump test concerns the brake spheres, not so expensive to replace. Interesting test but MOT is much more important
MOT or not MOT, that is the key point .

Flyer is totally right, those cars in Europe are very difficult to sell, the market is small and very slow.
I cannot sleep, the excitement is growing :). All is clear, I appreciate your help very much ! Your ideas sound reasonable and they are helpful. Except one thing: MOT is 100 eur .... ok .... however to prepare the car one has to replace headlights for sure and tires most probably. I think you forgot this fact. Will the seller invest at least 1000 eur into it? I doubt and no one can blame him I guess. is there any clever solution anyway? Maybe he can put the car to MOT anyway and they just make a report what is wrong and what is ok? So I expect that headlight and tires will be to replace, however I will know the rest, too. Is that it what you meant?
 
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