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Discussion Starter #1
All, i bought a parts car a few months ago for my silver shadow project that's in overall good shape, but suffered from an under hood fire. I felt like it was too good to part so today, I bought a parts car for my parts car. Both are 1980 but I think that the new parts car is a Euro model as it has an under the floor tank instead of one behind the back seat and some other interesting features like headlight wipers.

Can anyone tell me what the main differences would be under the hood?

Thanks
 

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Hi Alibassi,


You really need to put up any chassis numbers you have. Also quoting these on the Bentley heritage site will give a good indication if you search through the parts catalogue for each chassis number. It should also indicate the point the tank was moved from underfloor to back bulkhead. Again I believe this was done for homologation compliance back then in US.


US had the strictest rules around the world with the Californian emissions and crash test requirements and were feared to some extent by the automakers as lawsuits could cripple a company.


Heavy import duties were also levied on these cars as 'gas guzzlers'



I worked for Jaguar/AM and we had lawsuits going on at the time over various issues but getting the cars through compliance in the US was essential as it was the biggest market.



The huge difference would have been one fitted with the emission controls system. However that said I know some original systems got stripped out even on cars that had it fitted for the US NA


At least the common thing with a Euro and US car was the steering wheel on the left and the headlight dipped to the right.:devil Other items could have been optional extras.





Steve
 

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Hi Alibassi,


Yes the last digit X meant it was a euro car no real emissions or EGR stuff which was undoubtably the biggest difference underbonnet between the two, electrical harness differences too to contend with.



The last L digit denoted the year and was used from 1972 on ALL cars destined for NAmerica with EGR starting with A at 1972... B 1973 etc but H was missed out in the sequence as it had always been used for our 'H'ome market and defined a RHD. I(eye) also as it looked like a 1(one) too so was missed out in the sequence.


You can compare the two chassis numbers to show the difference by using the bentley site but I found all the workshop manual data on the EGR system I put up on another post the other day so will sort that out and add the link for you.


Can't do it now on this reply as I lose everything I type.


Steve
 

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Hi,


Here is the link and what I wrote as we were trying to identify a part in the EGR system.



http://rrtechnical.info/sy/tsd2476/23.pdf page17 but lots more info on the whole system all included. The link unfortunately does not take you directly to the section so if you go into the RR Aus forum and workshop manual for your car & year and look at section Emission Control U6 to U10 supplement 5


You should look at the whole topic on this that Jtro74 is discussing as he is doing a similar conversion and experiencing the problems between the two EGR and non EGR cars with the electrical system variations dealing with harness issues.


https://www.rollsroyceforums.com/forums/26-sy-series-i-ii-1965-1980/28010-1974-wiring-help.html



Steve
 

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Hi Al, There was no definitive year or chassis number for the fuel tank relocation. RR served 3 distinct markets and the exhaust, emissions and more areas reflect this.
For example: A 1978 RR Shadow for N. America at chassis SRH26373 has a bulkhead location. Japan + Australia are floor mounted."Other markets" have the floor location as well.

During this era, there was alot of emission and crash concerns for every market, hence no consistency with exact year changes to parts locations.

I have dealer master parts catalogs for all service parts and the one for exhausts is the most complex since it deals with emissions and changes to the fuel tank location.
 

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Ok for 1980 : car SRX36111 shows: Bulkhead: Japan + Austrailia
Floor: North America and other destinations.

Use the Bentley Heritage site for the specific year and vehicle numbers for exact parts listings.

My very late 1980 SWII CA actually uses many 1981 emissions and fuel parts since it was adapted for the CA market in order to be sold there between March 1980 and Dec 1980.

Blocks are the same for all countries, however, compression ratios and everything external to the engine was changed for the destined marketplace.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks all, if it can be used to save the white one, it would be great as I think that the white car is a very pretty car. I did have a peak under the hood and it's a lot simpler under there. The yard indicated that the engine ran but I'm not hearing any hum from the fuel pump. There was a plate in the trunk that has been removed that looks into the tank so i see fuel but i don't hear the pump. I'll check the wiring when i get it to my shop. Right now it's parked outside my house and I don't know how long it can sit there without my neighbors (rightfully) losing their minds
 

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Main mechanic differences, as far as I know, would be for californian Shadow II and their heavy and complex depollution system.
 

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Jean..what are the heavy parts on a California car regarding the "depollution" system?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OK so I got the car running. I suspect that it does not want start because there's crappy gas in it but once I pour some fresh fuel into the intake, the car would run and continue to run on the fuel from the tank. I rented a u haul trailer and was hoping to drive it on but low and behold, the brakes locked up just like they did on my gold car so we ended up cracking the bleeders open on the brake calipers to de-pressurize the braking system and strapping the rear bumper to a tow rope connected to the front tow hook of my 1980 Mercedes Benz 280TE that was being used for brake.

Once loaded, we made it up to my building without too much fuss and I got the car unloaded there. So now I can make two good cars out of three bad ones. I'm trying to decide which one to dismantle and which to keep. Easiest would be to dismantle the white fire damaged car and use parts to fix the other two. But aside from a pretty bad file under the hood. It's actually MUCH nicer than the other two.

The blue Euro car is somewhat unique and much simpler under the hood. I think I can get it road worthy pretty quickly now that I spent 10 months or there about understanding the braking system. The gold car still needs a tonne of work done. The fuel lines are rock hard and will also need to be replaced. It's probably a good thing that the gas is so nasty because it might have caught fire. The interior was re-done in vinyl but the other two have good leather seats that will match perfectly

All these work and then there's the 300SEL 6.3....I just keep piling it on.

I'll have pictures tomorrow.
 

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Hi,


I speak seven languages but really only able to write correctly in my native UK and then still make lots of mistakes despite having passed A level English certificates.


Jean7 does a wonderful job despite not working in his native language so I would assume using the word HEAVY is probably an interpretation of 'OVERLOADED' rather than weight.


Just my opinion.


I was 15 years living in South France and always being confronted with 'mickey taking' at some of my interpretation of the French words.:devil



Steve.
 

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A complete depollution system which strts on the engine with pipe you need to very properly cancel, and above all massive and heavy special exhaust.
With all this sytem, you loose a lot of power, but removing this syteme as to be done professionally.


Califonria was the first to impose low emission control, all the RR/ Bentley from this period, 80 ies, such as Sadow II, have inovated this depollution system, which was taking a lot of power with very costly parts.
When those cars arrived in Europe, the french or swiss dealer were used to take it out following factory instruction.
Because some hard pipes were connected tothe egine, on each cylinder as far as I remeber.


Bentely heritage should mentionned a difference for parts.
 

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FYI The FI Bosch system delivered to CA, does not use an air injection pump with "antlers" to the heads, Has a very simple lightweight stainless exhaust system consisting of a single catalytic converter, two small oval 12" mid-mufflers and 2 small round silencers in the rear which is much lighter than a typical system and exits the rear at each corner like a Corniche and early SZ. cars.
Because of FI they do not have 2 carbs that have to be synch'd, linkages, fuel bowls, floats, butterflies etc, resulting in a system that is very reliable and less to tinker with. The system was used on Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes and Delorean to name a few.
Most manufacturers do not promote removing pollution control equiptment.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
While I've never owned a California spec silver shadow, I recognize that most other brands had to bolt on extra pollution control goodies onto their cars to meet CA emissions requirements. Rolls Royce seemed to have done the smart thing in 1980 and introduce BOSCH CIS a year early in their last model year for the Silver Shadow. CIS fuel injection was already proven to be reliable and was by VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche since the mid 70's. It should be a simpler system than a smogged up carburetor engine. I do not know if the pre 80 cars had extra emission goodies for the California market.

I'm very familiar with the CIS fuel injection system from my Mercedes Benz tinkering and my life would be much easier if that's what I had. This car has an air injection pump and some plumbing but it all looks aftermarket and possibly put in there when it was imported.
 

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Interesting....take a few pics when you get the opportunity. I'm curious
 

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Robert, my 1980 Shadow II was from California, made for California, but that was 30 years ago .....
Swiss engineers from RR did a fabulous job on it to take out all the californian system, and they showed me the heavy parts under the car. All the front and middle exhaust was replaced.


This Shadow II had 2 SU carburetors, not Fuel Injection.


Also they had to cut and close some pipes related to each cylinder. There was no air pump, but a very complex system under the car but moreover above the engine.


After they took out everything, this Shadow II was the most powerfull I have ever driven and I have driven some of them indeed.
Even the specialists were amazed by the immediate strong power of this car.
The engineers dod a fabulous job according to Crewe advice to take everything made for California out and do it professionnally.


From outside, looking at the engine, you could see that some hard pipe above each cylinder had been cut and closed.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Jean, to my knowledge, the 1980 Silver Shadow for the CA market all has CIS injection and were identified by a vin # that ended with C (for California). Others will confirm.
 

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Al Correct. Ended with a C Started in March of 1980 and ended Dec 1980. Reportedly 53 Shadow II andWraith II built. I have #47.
FYI Shadow II's had injection. It was the only way to buy a RR in CA in 1980. If you wanted a longer version, you bought the Wraith II. I have seen 1980 Shadows with corner exhaust tips, with engine bay pics and the FI is clearly visible.

You will find them in Hemmings Motor News and sometimes Ebay, CA cars are rare.

Stay tuned....I'm working on something very interesting for my car that will be adaptable to others. Hint: I need an intake manifold from a Spirit designed for a 4 BBL Solex. I do not plan to alter my car, but use it as a test bed.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Rob, I've seen a couple of sale including a parts car in GA and one in MS. Both looked too far gone to be useful to me.
 
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