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I have seen a few articles with regard to converting the Citron brake system in a 76 Silver Shadow to a GM brake system. However I can't seem to find out where to get a kit or any information about doing this.
brake system
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There are no kits. Why would you take a proven system, although a bit complex, and try to re-engineer it?. Apparently one doesn't understand the stock system. FYI It is not a Citroen system per see, but a use of accumulators that RR is licensed to use.
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It is cheaper in the long run to stick with the stock brake system no matter how badly it has deteriorated. If you have the mechanical skills to adapt another manufacturers brake system to it you have the skill to rebuild the factory system. If you flush and change the brake fluid every two years you will get at least ten years before any part of the system needs attention. Then when you eventually sell your Shadow you will not take a heavy hit because it has been modified with a non stock brake system. Good Shadows are increasing in value every year which is a strong incentive to keep it stock.
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I have seen cars with the RR system converted. I have a very good working knowledge of the system used on my Silver Shadow, and the parts to make the repairs are extremely expensive, engine pumps(2) accumulators (2) and I don't believe they are as reliable as a stock GM system is.
Moderator note:
billymac340, as a new member of this forum, please take a few minutes to read through "Instructions for navigating the site" and "How to reply to a discussion thread"in the FAQ section, link here: FAQ. There are other topics there that you may find informative. Please note also that it is not necessary to quote a previous post in your reply if you are following the train of thought in the thread, it just clutters up the thread unnecessarily. Simply start typing your reply in the dialogue box below the last post where it says "write your reply" , do not click on "reply"(which adds the previous post as a quote) unless it is absolutely necessary to maintain continuity in the thread. Thanks, Jim.
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Pumps rarely need replacing, same with accumulators. Both are easily rebuildable by any competent mechanic. Rebuild kits are not expensive unless you buy OEM from a Bentley dealer, the only parts one would likely have to send out for rebuilding and pressurizing would be the accumulator spheres.
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The pumps are very noisy and from what I've seen the pin driving it off the cam wears out and it no longer provides pressure, The parts are obtainable but it's a bit of work to rebuild them and take them off the engine. Just heard that you could use a GM PS pump as in a hydroboost system. Both systems turn the no pressure light on.
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The brake pumps will always provide pressure even with worn pushrods(not pins). They may get noisey, but still do their job. Understand one fundamental thing. RR and the aerospace division are engineering companies and if you feel you have the time, resources and engineering know to out-engineer, please proceed with your idea. I can tell you that all of the attempts I have seen in the last 30 yrs were a disaster from a safety and engineering aspect. The projects are abandoned in due time. Those that are successful, suffer from non-originality and do not sell anywhere near a non-molested car..
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I guess you're right, there's no free lunch!!! LOL I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and fix it the right way! I already replaced the "rat trap" with all of the valves.
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I can rebuild your valves and spheres for you:
www.britishtoolworks.com
Rolls-Royce component rebuilding services
BTW can rebuild many components for Rolls-Royce and Bentley motor cars. Items like Shadow accumulators and idler pulleys. Cloud rear axle bearings replaced.
www.britishtoolworks.com
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I have no fluid coming out of the bleeders on the accumulators while the engine is running and very little from one of the calipers on the front wheels. There is no braking whatsoever. Coupled with the fact that the pumps are noisy, which I've been told on here that that won't affect the pressure, I thought it might be cheaper to adapt another system to it. But from what I'm hearing on here it's better just to rebuild the pumps and accumulators. I haven't really checked the pressure with a gauge but since the low pressure light sensors are both turning the light on and there's no brakes I'm guessing those two things are a good place to start
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To begin: Carefully remove the reservoir lid and suck out the old fluid with a turkey baster, remove the 2 plates, suck more fluid. Most likely have a bunch of gunk down there. Next remove the hex shaped fine filters with a 1" socket. Be careful. Observe the screens, are they collapsed and torn?
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I took the reservoir off and cleaned it out a few months ago. It does have a fluid leak, and it's starting to get pretty bad as it has a steady drip. But I keep the reservoir full. There is no braking whatsoever. And the low pressure light comes on from both sensors at the fender well. Also when I open the bleeder on the accumulators no fluid comes out on either one with the engine running. And only a slight fluid amount of fluid come out of just one caliper on the front wheels on each side, not enough pressure to activate the caliper to even stop the car. I haven't put a gauge on the system to check pressure but I'm assuming that there isn't any. I know you said that the pumps will still put pressure out even though they are noisy, but what else could cause it to not have any pressure. I have decided to take your advice and rebuild the original parts on the system and not to change it over. The only thing that I will have to do is to send the accumulators out to have them recharged. Your advice is much appreciated.
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Moderator note:
billymac340, please! As a new member of this forum, please take a few minutes to read through "Instructions for navigating the site" and "How to reply to a discussion thread"in the FAQ section, link here: FAQ. There are other topics there that you may find informative. Please note also that it is not necessary to quote a previous post in your reply if you are following the train of thought in the thread, it just clutters up the thread unnecessarily. Simply start typing your reply in the dialogue box below the last post where it says "write your reply" , do not click on "reply"(which adds the previous post as a quote) unless it is absolutely necessary to maintain continuity in the thread. Thanks, Jim.
billymac340, please! As a new member of this forum, please take a few minutes to read through "Instructions for navigating the site" and "How to reply to a discussion thread"in the FAQ section, link here: FAQ. There are other topics there that you may find informative. Please note also that it is not necessary to quote a previous post in your reply if you are following the train of thought in the thread, it just clutters up the thread unnecessarily. Simply start typing your reply in the dialogue box below the last post where it says "write your reply" , do not click on "reply"(which adds the previous post as a quote) unless it is absolutely necessary to maintain continuity in the thread. Thanks, Jim.
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4,870 Posts
Here's a very helpful site to become familiar with the braking system. Note: early Shadows had a master cylinder.
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I'm aware that it has a master cylinder, one of the pins on the lever broke off and when I steeped on the brake pedal it would not pivot and acuate the cylinders, so I replace the entire "rat trap" some years ago. go The car basically sits in my garage, and I only used it to go to church on Sundays and the British car club that I belong to.
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