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Discussion Starter #1
Would someone please be able to tell me the type and size of the head of the bolts (10 of) which secure the Silver Shadow rear brake disc to the hub. I understand that this same bolt is used upon the front discs of 1987 > cars.

It appears to be Torx - is that correct? :|
 

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Hi,


From memory it is a T50-E10 12 tooth male Torx. They are indeed used on front too and on later cars. I have leant my Torx socket set to someone so can't check exactly and it has reminded me I have not been given them back yet.



These are high tensile bolts and typically this type is used on cylinder heads too.


Don't be tempted to use a 12 point standard socket.


If you need replacements look for some decent secondhand ones from a breakers. If you need to take them off then buy/borrow the correct socket tool. But give them back!!!!!



Hope this helps


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for that however as I don't have a bolt to hand and can only view 'E' Torx sockets as commonly offered for sale I am a little confused as they don't appear to be as 'fine' as a photo I've seen of the UG11166 head but perhaps that's simply an illusion.
Aside from length and square drive size are all E10 sockets the same, ie., will what looks (to me) like a 'Coarse' 6 'point' Torx E10 socket actually fit what looks like 'Fine' 12 'tooth' E10 head?
I am sorry to remain unclear but just want to have the correct socket on hand in case I ever need it for disc replacement.
 

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Sometimes called a "4 square". If you remove the rear hub and separate everything, remember to carefully set the bearing gap and follow the service manual religiously. Wait until you have to press out the stub axle. It took me 30 tons on my press.
 

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Hi JGD,


A standard 12 point socket or a 6 point socket will actually fit over the head but again I would never use one for the Torx head as it can damage the points of the bolts head and probably in this high torqued application even break the socket.


A 6 point Torx socket I doubt will fit over a 12 point Torx head but probably a 12 point Torx would fit over a 6 point.............confused.......sorry I have not got my set on hand to refer to.



The correct part you need is a 12 point Torx T50-E10............if known as a 'triple square' that sounds logical as 3X4=12 but a term I have not heard off here in UK.


My suggestion is buy a spare used bolt off ebay $8.......about £30 from FS each. Always good to have a spare on hand though. Take it down to your local autoshop and get the correct Torx socket. I suggest you get the 1/2 inch rather than the 3/8 drive and you would probably also need a long extension bar to remove them anyway.


Hope this helps


Steve
 

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They are also known as ZXN bolts. Spline drive is very different from the others. The hardware doesn't have "points" at all, instead have "teeth" with a squared-off cross section. Think like the splines on an axle shaft, or u-joint yoke/flange.

In some low-torque applications, spline, triple-square and double-hex can "cheat" with each other acceptable. I've even cheated an inverted torx with a fractional box end wrench before without damaging anything. However the problems start with rusty, and high torque applications. You will damage or ruin the fastener if you use the incorrect type of socket or driver bit.

You need the proper socket. There is also limited room around the fastner and I have seen both reg and impact sockets vary slightly in diameter.
 

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Hi,


We refer to all our sockets and Torx male or female in UK as 'point' it is nothing to do with SHAPE it refers to number of 'points of contact'


Steve
 

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That is obvious. A Torx has 120 degree splines and a triple square is at 90 deg, hence square. You may fit a Torx over a triple square, but professionally frowned upon because if it slips and strips the splines due to surface rust, etc ... you are literally screwed.
Simply buy the correct socket.
 

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Hi,


Just telephoned my friend to get my special socket set returned back and asked what is on the label on the top lid.


Indeed it is a set of XZN sockets. Not sure exactly yet which one or the stamping on the side of the exact socket used for the reference size till I get the set back.



Picture shows the exact bolt used.


Steve
 

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Excellent! I hate lending out tools. In fact, never do, and would prefer the lendee bring their project here for the work.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for your informative and helpful replies gents.

I have ordered a new bolt ex UK (as suggested a spare may be good to have) and sensing I would be wasting my time trying to find a socket at my local tool place I've 'Rolled the Dice' and ordered from that 'Bay' site item 254364082618 ie., Socket; E10 - '12 point' - 1/2 in. drive - Cr-V steel etc., all for $11 incl. post ex H/Kong.
Both items ought arrive at about the same time and if I've misunderstood your combined advice and they don't match up then I'll be forced to go to my local tool shop whilst adding a small inexpensive paperweight to my desk. :|
 

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Oh JDG,


It was probably my fault as I did not have my socket set so was not sure as I said.


Wraithman is correct it is an XZN or as he refers to as a 3square. I checked on the lid of my set and definitely XZN.


The socket you have bought will fit over the bolt head but not as snugly as it should so surface loads are not spread as they should be and as this is a high torque item I would get the correct one.


Easily available too.


My apologies


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thank you - I'll let you know how I go when both bolt and socket arrive but as you indicate I'll eventually have to get the correct one. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sorry - need to follow up. I've just checked on 'Bay' site for XZN sockets and all three pages show 'Male' type sockets only.
Perhaps I'm still missing something so if anyone can provide a 'Bay' link or other source I would be appreciative.
 

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Hi JGD,


This set is similar to mine. Comes with both male and female so you should find something around you


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sockets-Keys-Insert-Xzn-Millerighe-Sockets-Lines-Male-Female-13PZ-122x/193118357252?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40733%26meid%3Da974adc8e46d448ab1b4d4e65596b6ce%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D193118357252%26itm%3D193118357252%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042


That said we have many specialist tool suppliers where you can just go and buy one specific item and just checking Kennedy Tools here in UK only a couple of pounds for just the one item.


I have lots of sets of tools that probably only the one item in it has ever been used but trying to find a single item when needed usually it has got lost somewhere in the mancave......or leant out and never been given back.


Don't make an efigy out of the other one and stick pins in it.........makes a good toothpick/cocktail stick holder though.




Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you Steve

That is a nice set, however, as indicated the seller wont post to Australia so I'll wait arrival of the bolt ex UK and see what I can find here and take your point about the cost of buying individual items compared to a complete set.

As for my 'Surplus' socket - yes indeed, a handy toothpick holder!
 

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These bolts are commonly used on imports, especially German and I'm sure I purchased a single socket here in the USA at either an Autozone or Advance Auto.
I will check later. A I mentioned to Steve, and he has posted accordingly, the 2 are almost interchangeable, but for critical and high torque applications the XZN is used. The proper socket gives more contact with the splines from top to bottom. Using the Torx socket on one of these, which many will do, will certainly lead to disaster if the splines are destroyed. Blow all rust and dirt away off the splines. Do not use WD40 (its a lubricant), you want a dry fit with no chance of skipping.
It appears you are splitting the hub? New rotors? FYI there is an updated grease seal, you will need a new nut for the stub axle and a method to deliver 525ft lbs of torque to tighten the nut.
 

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Hi JGD,


I had not realised you were in Australia I thought you were USA.


I only put the link up as a picture to show that the type of kits were available. I only buy German or USA quality tools now albeit not so easy with old imperial tools BA and Whitworth etc so would not really recommend them as a purchase from Italy.


You have a very strong RR following in Aus and a lot of more local members in Aus on this site that may tell you where to buy one.


http://au.rrforums.net/cgi-bin/forum/discus.pl


A lot of members here are common to both forums so don't leave us:devil


Steve
 
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