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Does the general prohibition on mods cover the changeover from the plastic radiator in the 90s cars? Which cost a standard Rolls/Bentley small fortune and are marked on the BMW 100,000 service as being a disposable item!

Would this policy prevent anyone from advising on buying a properly manufactured Flying Spares metal one?
 

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Does the general prohibition on mods cover the changeover from the plastic radiator in the 90s cars?
In my opinion, you should be able to recommend anything you like and leave it to anybody else who can take it or leave it. If someone else disagrees, they should be welcome to chime in.

The purpose of forums should be to help preserve cars and for many enthusiasts, this requires knowledge sharing. While I'm sure that purists are well intentioned, that won't be what it will take to keep the cars on the road.
 

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Al,
In certain circumstances I agree with your view. On a non-affiliated site such as this, any recommendation is fair and people have to judge if it makes sense (or is even safe - I have seen some that are not). I think the sanctioned clubs (RROCA, RREC, RROC) are in a different spot. They depend on the sufferance of the branded corporations. In fact, they are allowed to use names and marks only by permission. There is little for them to gain and, potentially, a lot to lose, if they allow every "shade-tree mechanic" solution to problems compete on their fora.
 

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Al,
In certain circumstances I agree with your view. On a non-affiliated site such as this, any recommendation is fair and people have to judge if it makes sense (or is even safe - I have seen some that are not). I think the sanctioned clubs (RROCA, RREC, RROC) are in a different spot. They depend on the sufferance of the branded corporations. In fact, they are allowed to use names and marks only by permission. There is little for them to gain and, potentially, a lot to lose, if they allow every "shade-tree mechanic" solution to problems compete on their fora.
David, thank you for your feedback. As an owner and member of several brands and affiliated clubs such as Mercedes Benz, BMW, Porsche etc. , I've never encountered any problems with members providing DIY advice an tips on club forums. For that matter, it for the most part has been a huge selling point for the club to provide tech forums, tech sessions and even track events for their members.

I guess it depends on whether the clubs are for the manufacturers or the members. For every other club, it's been the members as the manufacturers only care about selling new cars, and the clubs make for a great marketing tool about the pedigree and longevity of the brand.
 

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They depend on the sufferance of the branded corporations.
They really don't in any meaningful sense.

But, and this is an important but and it applies to this very forum, too, these venues are privately owned and, as such, we, the membership, are there at the pleasure of those owners and subject to the policies their owners choose to set.

I agree that the stricture, as presented, in the original message in this topic is ridiculous. And, as I expected, it has not been rigorously enforced. One of the reasons I left the RROC-US, and its forums, was that certain strictures on discussion were put in place using the excuse that "Rolls-Royce would not approve." I don't give a damn what Rolls-Royce may or may not approve of. These forums are not owned by nor sponsored by Rolls-Royce. Those of us keeping these cars on the road are burnishing the cachet of the Rolls-Royce and Bentley brands whether we use Crewe Original parts or aftermarket equivalents to do so.

These are cars, not objects of worship, and the nature of keeping most things going over time means that certain modifications are going to occur. My cars are not, contrary to opinions in certain quarters, "lesser" because I use modern relays, Gates belts, NAPA oil and fuel filters, and similar. These are service items that are the exact functional equivalents of the Crewe Original part. I am not maintaining "a piece of history" to museum standards. I am maintaining (or trying to, I've been falling down over the last 5 years due to life circumstances) a car that I use for fun and pleasure. That's a worthy goal, and should be encouraged by the clubs.
 
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It's not always about the supply parts issue. The RROC Forum for example, has the benefit of many old timers that contribute their decaes of experience to new custodians of the marque, Once you have a part, it is useless unless it is installed, or better yet, properly diagnosed to determine if the part should be replaced in the first place.
And most importantly, like us here provide guidance for repairs and diagnosis based on experience, also recommendations for shops, etc.
 

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They really don't in any meaningful sense.


With respect, you are wrong. The RROC uses the R-R name through a licensing agreement with Rolls-Royce plc. The magazine, The Flying Lady, displays the symbol and uses the name through a license with R-R plc. The permission to create and distribute various items through the club's store are by license by R-R plc. The club receives support in some of its activities from both operating companies (R-R [BMW] and Bentley [VW]). None of those may be of any importance to you but they are significant to the members. That the clubs exist to preserve originality does not make them illegitimate, rather (as you say) not for all interests.
 

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With respect, you are wrong.
And we'll have to agree to disagree on virtually all points.

I have great respect for those who wish to do "museum quality maintenance." It's admirable. It's not the only legitimate goal, and a car club should be open to what multiple contingents wish to do.

I would never have cared if any of the logos, etc., were not present in any club publication. Your duty, as a club, is to your membership. If there is a conflict between the membership wants, and the sponsors wants, the membership wins hands down.

And I can say most assuredly that they were significant to some of the members, certainly not all. It's possible to have a much bigger tent. Some of us do not, and never will, under any circumstances, buy into The One True Way that the purists adamantly insist upon. If that's what you (any you, not you specifically) want, that's perfectly fine. But it's not, in actuality, The One, True Way.

But, as an adult, I also know that my wishes need not dictate the actions of others or organizations. I walked away when it became clear that I had no place in a club that espoused the rigid attitudes it did. I still have a lot of fond memories, and friends and acquaintances, from my years there.
 

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In my experience, I feel that there is a general lightness of knowledge around these cars. That's not to say that I have not had some very useful technical help from other owners, I certainly have and I'm always grateful.

But I've found that learning these cars requires for a much steeper hill to be climbed, and it shouldn't be. There are far too many responses to either to read the manual or see a specialist. I don't believe that those responses are productive as they defeat the purpose of a forum which is software that provides a searchable database for Q&A to build a knowledge base. I'm actually excited by the parts substitution forum because it does exactly this.

For whatever reason, the culture is different. I don't think it has anything to do with licensing. RR is owned by BMW and Porsche is owned by VW. For anyone who's not aware, enthusiasts modify the cr*p out of those cars.

Now if anyone can tell me how I can make the silver shadow brakes work with a Mercedes Benz OM606 diesel engine, I'd be infinitely grateful as I'm planning my next project :)
 

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There are far too many responses to either to read the manual
But I have to say that there are far too few who actually do that, whether it's the Owner's Handbook or the Workshop Manual.

I think my posting record across the RROC US Forums (when I was a member), the Australian Forums, and here clearly indicate that I am not of the instant, snarling RTFM crowd. At the same time, I will often say please read through {insert appropriate exact chapter or section of chapter here} of the Workshop Manual first, since they are pretty well written and it gives a knowledge base that allows one to have a scaffold for asking more specific questions.

But I am someone who is consistently appalled at how many, regardless of the forums involved, seem constitutionally incapable of doing a search of what's already out there first, before asking a question. There comes a time where the thousand and first repetition seems like an exercise in futility. Unless we're talking about the current production cars, which very few are, virtually all questions have been asked and answered, or at the very least discussed at length, and having read those discussions first may eliminate some questions and cause certain specific as yet unanswered ones to be formed.

These forums are not, in my opinion, for the first question that enters someone's mind to be posted without having done a bit of basic research first. And I do mean basic; it doesn't come more basic than a search with a couple of well-chosen terms using the search box at the top of each and every page.
 
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I think my posting record across the RROC US Forums (when I was a member), the Australian Forums, and here clearly indicate that I am not of the instant, snarling RTFM crowd. At the same time, I will often say please read through {insert appropriate exact chapter or section of chapter here} of the Workshop Manual first, since they are pretty well written and it gives a knowledge base that allows one to have a scaffold for asking more specific questions.
I don't disagree with you. Some discipline needs to be exercised. I don't know how RTFM helps do anything but provide more of the same dumb questions.

The manuals are useful but I would not call them intuitive by nature. Examples of this include:
  1. PDF is made from binary images so they cannot be easily navigated
  2. Dates need to be set back on system clock
  3. Lots of references to special tools that you may be able to work around (where DIY input is really valuable)
  4. Poor quality diagrams (just the nature of photo copying a paper manual and putting it on pdf).
  5. It's not written by Germans
Most importantly, old cars wear out in many different ways and a new car manual will rarely cover a fraction of them.

Forums provide a crowd sourcing solution to technical problems that really help keep older cars o the road because they provide a very easy way to document problems and search them. You'll never get close to the quality of searching, formatting or images in a manual.

To understand the value, take a look at identifix which is basically a crowd sourcing solution platform for automotive technicians. It was sold in 2015 for around $600m and is now pretty much in every automotive shop.
 
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