Rolls-Royce and Bentley Forums banner

21 - 29 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Thanks, they immobilizer works fine. I can access it and program it with the Omitec. I can't access the alarm menu because the alarm is armed. The key is in the ignition and in run mode.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Interesting,

Which version of software is your tester on?

The anti-theft alarm system electronic control module is electrically connected to the starter, ignition and transmission selector circuits to provide a high-security immobilization system which immobilizes the motor car by:
• *) Preventing the starter being operated
• *) Preventing the ignition system from operating
• *) Locking the transmission in Park.

The immobilizer and alarm systems are one and the same.

The alarm system menu allows you to program new keys and remotes.

Turning the key to "run" deactivates the active alarm and allows for communication to the system.
I remember reading another thread that you had mentioned that you had purchased from the UK another key and ignition switch from an earlier car and that did not work.

Did you get the vehicles keys when you purchased this car from salvage?

Maybe you should start with a new UV11381PA.

I'm curious if an owner loses all remotes and keys with the alarm system active if there is a way to program new keys?

I have one master and one valet key. I think I will be ordering a spare master key as a spare. I do know that you are limited to 4 keys to a car.


As a side note there is a low voltage control module is located under the top roll adjacent to the automatic ride control 'power' module.

28448
The low voltage control module isolates the central door locking system and maintains full operation of the anti-theft alarm system when the battery voltage falls below a prescribed value.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
The following is hard earned and offered as is. Any cheap VAG scanners work, in that they can all generate and can read the all correct protocols but (and it can be a big but) it is the software you use that actually asks the question.
All scanners and all software interrogate pin7 with ISO9141 as a default. This is because the purpose of OBD and OBD11 is to report on information that has an effect on emissions. Fault diagnosis is a side effect of that. Only cars with ecus handling that information can respond. For instance cars with carburettors cannot give information about mixture etc. Also OBD cars also have a lot less reporting sensors than OBD11 and so cannot give the same level of information. No amount of asking can cure this-they just do not know. This is a list of the connections on Arnages and Seraphs on the left and in this case a cheap VAG 5054a scanner on the right. The information on the left for instance shows that all Arnages and Seraphs pre 2009 have nothing connected to pin 1 or2. That means absolutely nothing can be ascertained from pin 1or 2 for pre2009, no matter what the scanner or protocol.
4.4ltr Arnages were OBD11, then 2000 to 2003 Arnages reverted to OBD and after that went back to OBD11. This was because of the hurried replacement of the4.4 engine and gearbox ecu with the 6.75 engine and gearbox ecu. This would normally be illegal (OBD not OBD11) but the Arnage weighed so much it avoided the legislation.
On the left It can be seen that among other things pin3 does the airbag but the cheap scanner has nothing connected to pin3. So other than by using a multiplexor (built into expensive scanners) what can be done? Well connecting pin 7 (the source of iso 9141) by any means available to pin 3, the airbag can be reset through software that says reset the airbag.. The yes and no comments for pin 3 are the ecu connections I can make with cheap scanners.
It is clear from this list that post 2009 the cars go CAN connection.
Car Connectionpin5054a
scanner
Not Connected most models[2009 only]1Switched Ignition (term15)
Not Connected most models [2009 only]2J1850P
AirBag,AutoRide,Alarm,CDL,BattMan,parkassist
[2000-2009]
Park, Alarm,Airbags- yes
BattMan, Autoride - no
3Not Connected
earth4Chassis Ground
earth5Signal ground
Not Connected most models [2009 only]6Can High (High Speed)
Engine,Abs,Cruise,Trans,AutoRide
Engine – yes (sensors only)
Abs,Cruise,Trans,Autoride - no
[2000-2009]
7ISO9141 K line
Not Connected most models [Azure only]8Can High (low speed)
Trans [2000]9Can Low (low speed)
Not Connected most models [Azure only]10J1850N
AutoRide16 [2000] -No11Not Connected
AutoRide ECU13 [2000] -no12Not Connected
Hvac,Speed Sensor [2000-2009] -no13Not Connected
Seat Lumbar,Alarm,CDL [2000-2009] -no14Can Low (High Speed)
Not Connected any models15ISO9141 L line
Battery power [2000-2009]16Battery Power
Connections for Seraphs/Arnages

Pin 15 is used to accept a wake up call for the ecu but since no models use this connection that L call has no function to the car.
Early Arnages (pre 2003) appear to have some functionality in KWP1281 in spite of being predominantly ISO 9141. On pin seven (normal OBD iso9141) interrogation they all give the engine data (throttle etc) and eco fault numbers
The Engine gives responses in ISO9141 and the airbag, park sensors, locking respond to KWP1281 but battery management,abs/asc,cruise control ,autoride ,trans are more difficult to access with basic scanners depending on year.
I have only had the experience of pre CAN protocol vehicles .I would expect CAN to give full access. Different models use different pins for extra information but 7,3,12 are the basic standard data lines pre (I think) 2009 for ISO 9141, KWP2000, KWP1281 responses.
Pin7 is used to access pre Arnage models which have ECUs but the range of information is limited. In other words check the wiring diagrams to see what ecu is physically connected to each pin on the car and connect pin 7 to those in turn. You now have a source of the correct language going to a pin with an ecu attached but !! your software now has to ask the ecu a question. RR used non OBD/OBD11 pins to relay their own information to their scanners. Connecting pin7 to pins with other ecus connected, if done with care, is safe but do not connect it to power pins etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
I got a key for the car but not a key fob. The start up process when I first got the car was erratic but became more consistent over the time. I did buy a replacement lock assembly and it was from an earlier car so it did not have the immobilizer pellet. It would start the car provided that the original key was in the original lock assembly with the ring that you mentioned. As it did not fix the issue, I stopped using it.

While the car would start, the hazards would light up indicating the alarm was going off (siren does not make a sound so could either be dead or disconnected)

I have two Omitec scanners. Both running firmware version 8.0 both behave exactly the same way.
If I try to go into the security menu (option 5), I get a communication error even with the key in the run position.

The only exception to this is if I do the following:
1) disconnect the battery
2) reconnect the battery which will set the alarm on and turn the hazards on
3) jump in the car and put the key in run and go into option 5 on the scanner to the point where the scanner indicates that I need to plug the round connector in and press the check mark indicating to proceed.
4) wait 20-30 seconds until the hazards stop flashing. As soon as they do, i can enter menu for the menu for the alarm system but cannot go further in any option i select because the alarm would go off after a few seconds and lock scanner out of the system

i'm thinking the siren might have something to do with it. In the wiring diagram , the siren is linked into the main ECU as well as the alarm module so I suspect that it's doing more than just being a siren. No idea what though.

In my opinion, instructions in the manual are light. They don't appear to consider any kind of exception handling and describe everything that should happen in a perfect world. I obviously have a problem somewhere in the system, but I don't have any clear to where so even with the scan tool. it's been guess work.

There might be technical service bulletins available after the fact but I don't see it. I find it very hard to believe that i'm the only one who's run across this problem.

I have the same issue with my Arnage. It seems like once these alarms are armed, they're impossible to disarm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
So quick update. I pulled the old siren out and it's toast. There are transistors that appear to have melted the casing (probably from going off) and the battery leaked all over the board. I bought a replacement online.

28452

28453
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Just for clarification: did the replacement siren ultimately resolve this situation favourably?
Nope, but I have not spent a lot of time on it in recent weeks. I feel like i'm missing a procedure because I can access the alarm briefly after the siren initially goes out. Then the siren goes off again and I'm locked out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
On my 1998, Turning the key to "run" deactivates the active alarm and allows for communication to the system.
I used my spare key the other day and unlocked the car with it; the alarm sounded, put the key in the ignition, and turned to run - the alarm was deactivated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
On my 1998, Turning the key to "run" deactivates the active alarm and allows for communication to the system.
I used my spare key the other day and unlocked the car with it; the alarm sounded, put the key in the ignition, and turned to run - the alarm was deactivated.
Yep, I can pretty much guarantee that this is not happening on my car. Neither the 98 Brooklands or the Arnage T.
 
21 - 29 of 29 Posts
Top