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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-15-2019 09:23 AM
Wraithman When it comes to metal restoration, plating, etc. Here it is.
http://brightworkrestoration.com/
11-10-2019 08:56 AM
Wraithman Paint with the doors on. Hopefully you will have adjusted them beforehand. I think the potential of collateral damage after the fact is greater .

The rivet nuts that are in the body: You can use old hardware, but BA is not readily avail. Hint: I have used a piece of braided nylon twine and folded in half using a small screwdriver to push it into the thread at the fold. I have also seen a dab of latex chaulk used as well. It does no damage and comes out easily.

Let me warn you. The rocker trim is held in with a cup retainer and a "male pin" slid into the trim channel . It is basically an interference fit and the molding of the male pin it will lock into place. I removed all my body mounted trim and what happens there is paint buildup around these bare holes which change the diameter. The body part, is a softer plastic cup that will slide in (I press with a block of wood), but when the male part is pushed into it will be damaged due to the restricted opening. I went thru many male pins before I realized the issue was the added paint around the hole in the body thereby deforming the plastic pin. I also used a dab of silicone spray on a Qtip and it was the best method for me.
Go on the FS site to check out the "body clips"

Also paint shops use detail guns for door jambs and restricted areas and they have been figuring out this stuff for decades and I know you're concerned like I would be (I'm crazy too!) , the last thing he needs is a customer on his ass instructing him , he will lose interest or inflate the bill to cover aggravation.
11-10-2019 01:31 AM
Steve E Hi SpiritofX,


It is information like yours that helps us all too.


Can't help for a Chrome company as in UK but I always specify I want my chrome to 'Jewelery Standard'


Yes it is much easier to paint in a solid colour and all panels can be completely finished OFF the car on fixtures and allow quality finish to all corners of the main body.


You can fit some old bolts screw into threaded holes just don't screw them right in and be careful when removing not to spoil paint. Indeed I actually suggest you do this. many of the nuts behind panels especially on lower sill treadplates are encapsulated. You do not want anything that causes refitting to be tight as it can break away underneath and no way to repair other than to open up the hole and fit a palstic insert...........or just leave it as the 'cowboys' do.


You can paint in metallic 'panels off' but just have to be careful that ALL panels are orientated correctly. And yes you have to remember factory painting is robotic so no airlines and need for leaning over to get access as hand painting requires.



I warned you of your doors the two door car suffered badly from hinge droop. The problem is the striker plate on the rear quarter inner can act as lift which allows the door to look right when shut but usually is not a nice feel or sound as it hits the striker plate. That is why I said before you even start the paint make sure you get your door fit nicely sorted. lots of adjustment points at front pillar and inside the door too where there should be access holes in the inner door skin to get to those bolts.


I will read your posts in more detail later if anything I have missed that I can help with


all the best


Steve
11-10-2019 01:23 AM
spiritofx I was just thinking, perhaps the hood and trunk gaps wont be a problem. this guy has a Huge paint booth. before I saw it I was wondering how the job would be done, but in a booth this large, I think that there is room to set the hood and trunklid (and maybe doors too) on stands near the car, (panels standing in the proper orientation). if the car body itself could be painted without the appendages attached we could achieve the perfect finish in the gaps.

the question becomes, can we attain a continuous tone of paint shade and metallic orientation etc, from one panel to the next, by painting the car in this manner? It occurs to me perhaps we can, if we paint in the same order and so forth, that we would if the parts were on the car. for example, paint the left front fender, then the left side of the hoodlid (even though it is off on a stand, we pretend it is on the car, moving from left to right, doing it with the same jar of paint in the gun from the fender we just finished), then moving across the hood to the right, then painting the right front fender from the top down, etc, so that the panels and the paint in the gun have no idea that they are mounted on stands. the only items who will know there is anything different are the gaps, who will be getting unfettered 1st class spray attention.

What do you guys think of this?

It would make some things easier. the stand mounted parts would be able to be painted on their tops and bottoms and sides, without moving anything.

If it can't work out this way I am tempted to just tell them to take the metallic out of the paint. on the other hand, if it comes out badly painting on stands, we could just mount up everything and shoot another coat of base. then whatever overspray gets in the cracks can be sanded carefully down to that perfect finish we achieved painting on stands...

Will any uneven-ness show up in just basecoat? or do you have to put clear on it before you see the problems?(the problems that can come from painting in sections, where you don't get an even look and it appears to be painted in sections or painted with different paint)

try to forgive me guys, I am a sick sick man.

And now I will try not to write another ten pages on here for at least a week.

Cheers.
11-10-2019 12:23 AM
spiritofx
Brass window frames on early coachbuilt shadow/corniche.

Just to clear up confusion about brass vs. stainless side window frames, on my car, it is indeed a very early car and they did indeed use brass for all the side window frames at park ward on the convertible cars, (and 2dr. saloons too). Besides I have known this for 20 years, it is obvious they are brass when you remove the bolts that hold the side view mirrors on, they are countersink drilled, brass clear as day. It is also mentioned in various 500 page books by Bennet et al. This is the same method they used when making 1 off and 2 off and 6 off bodies of various types at mulliners, park wards, james young, etc, because these were just old dark filthy workshops (as it should be) with 70 year old guys (as it should be) and hammers and tea boys, and they didn't have "tooling" to build any of this stuff. Later in production, there was a change to stainless for these frames but the shapes of the frames changed at the same time. If you learn the shape you can see from 100 feet away if it is brass or stainless. To see a stainless version look at any Corniche ii, iii, or iv. To see the brass ones, look at anything in the 6000 series or below, but in truth I think the brass was used well up into the 9000 series. (1971 and later). I have seen even 1983 cars with the brass, and I suspect the stainless arrangement wasnt devised until it began use en masse approx 1985-1986. Note the change in vent window shape at the changeover period and also note the shape of the channel. On the brass cars, the channels are all dead straight, in fact so straight that you can see machining marks in it. on the stainless cars, the channels were pressed from thin stainless, so no machine marks are there, and you have a little bit cheaper more mass produced feeling when you look at them even though they are "more perfect" in their execution, although I don't like the newer vent window shape because there never was a vent window with that shape that could open, you need a curve at the leading lower corner in order for the seal to function. Since the front vent windows hadn't opened since the USA feds crippled them in 1968-69, that is a shame, but at least for a few years the window remained in it's original frame and shape. To me, it lends a phony feeling to the look of a vent window on a 86-95 car, when it's designed in a way that it couldn't open. Here you know it was phony from design point, like a fake convertible top on a 4 door sedan common in USA in 1970s.

I put a couple photos of my car to show what the handmade brass frames look like. Just made out of polished brass channel stock, chromium plated. If you look closely at the largest photo you can see how the channel pieces are just pieced together. Note the lower area of the frame dividing the vent window from the main drop glass. it is beautiful work just the same as done in the 1930s; I much prefer this to the later type.

And a photo of a later car with stainless frames which were made by pressing thin trim stainless into shape with tooling. Unfortunately the later car has the windows down but most of the visible difference is in the front ventipane which is showing.

I want to qualify all I have just said. My only real knowledge about his regards the cars prior to 1983-84, and their brass fittings. Everything I have said about the later cars being stainless is only what I assume by looking at them, not having taken them apart or any firsthand knowledge. So for your own purposes if you want to trust me on something, trust what I said about the old cars, I have owned and taken these apart for 20 years. The newer ones I have only seen and touched on the outsides.

Cheers everyone.
11-09-2019 11:55 PM
spiritofx Hi again guys,

little progress report and couple questions and longwinded maniacal ravings...

My car is at paint shop now, but I have told him to take the whole winter and do it at his leisure. Has started coming apart, I took off some front bits. Thanks for help on how to get the "snow pack" vents out. (below the headlamps). I will start with photos in a week or so. (forgot to take any)

Seeing that 2 door saloon paint job makes me want so badly to do a non metallic colour! I have recently thought maybe a very very dark blue like that would work. in 1960 they did a "midnight blue" and there was another one too. My car has a new blue everflex top which doesn't look right on the midnight blue cars, but goes perfectly with the car original colour of silver mink, which does make the car glow a certain way in full sunlight and show off the lines, so I probably will keep it original colour. They don't look good under flourescent or gas discharge lights in warehouses, the colour is changed, and I don't know why some dealers insist on photographing their cars only in these conditions.

The trunk photo that I think Steve put on, where he has a perfect finish in the trunk inside edge, that is exactly what I require on my hood and trunk gaps. It appears that to get that finish you need to do it with the hood and trunklid both totally off the car, isn't that right? I can't see how holding up the trunklid and hood a few inches on fixtures will furnish enough room to get the gun in there at the proper angle. Sorry to keep on about this aspect. This is the main reason I wish I wasn't doing metallic. They have it so much easier being able to paint in pieces.

Have a few questions more.
Easy ones first.

1. Does anyone have recommendations for chromium plating shops in the USA? If not, does anyone have their copy of Jon Waples' book about shadow maintenance handy? He lists in there where he got his chrome done.

2. what about all the threaded holes where I have removed lights and trim items? the painter says he usually just paints right over them and then the screws and bolts thread into them and cut the paint out of the threads. Is this going to work on small BA threads? Do you guys do anything about this? (I have no BA taps, and would prefer not to start buying more tools). Maybe stick toothpicks or match sticks in there? (I believe in a first class job but if it can be done with match sticks I will do it.) $100 saved on BA taps can go to gasoline for driving. I am envious of the new shops with every single tool brand new and of the highest cost, but that's why they get $50k for a job I am going to do for $15)


Next question, ... it appears that on my car both doors have hit the rear quarters when they were closed, or slammed, such that the paint has been slightly damaged in the lead area on the top of the front of the rear quarter. I may need to get photos of this before anyone will know what I am talking about. I noticed that the factory updated the body shape slightly here so this couldn't happen on later cars. I want to try and avoid doing that update as it is pretty involved. But at the same time I want to fix some way to avoid this happening with the new paint. Does anyone have any experience with this phenomenon? (this car is a never hit, never restored car, I have known it since it was built, so no need to worry about funny business or wrongness about the car. It was just a design that didn't lend itself much leeway in the design for slamming doors or for closing doors when perhaps weatherstrip or doorstops has gotten old and doesn't have enough hold-out.) I will put a photo of another car similar to mine, so I can describe the area in question, where the door on mine has hit the body. in the photo, if you look at the rear quarter panel and sight along the very top ledge, (along which a 1" wide man could walk about a foot, patrolling the area in front of the rear quarter window), look to the very front of this ledge, you notice they put an unfortunate angle here, such that the more closed the door gets, the tighter the gap becomes. this is where it has hit on my car. In later cars they reshaped it so the angle was not there, so no matter how hard the door was closed, the gap didn't change. So the question becomes, how to make SURE that this doesn't occur when the new paint is put on? (add 1/32" of space to this gap?) (fix a solid "delrin" type doorstop somewhere, of precise measured size?, such that it is impossible for the door to proceed too far closed?) they did use a rubber doorstop but if you slam hard enough it is collapsible and besides, they don't last long. Every time I replace them they get smashed and disintigrate eventually. Maybe here put solid material instead of soft rubber? Any ideas or has anyone seen this occur on other cars? When I got my car, both doors were adjusted so they didn't close all the way tight. The rear door edge sat proud of the quarter panel by about 3/32. When this was adjusted to look right the door became much harder to close tightly, requiring somewhat of a slam. (this may have been because the weatherstrip for the doors was 40 years old, and somewhat harder than usual.)

this photo isn't my car, but the photo shows the area I talk about where my door has hit the front of the rear quarter.
10-25-2019 08:42 AM
Wraithman A rare and beautiful car and wonderful color.
10-25-2019 07:42 AM
PEEVER hi steve he is painting it in the original colour

mike
10-25-2019 06:39 AM
Steve E Peever,


Well researched.



That is exactly how mine was done on fixtures and looks a real professional job being done here too with everything being stripped off.


Again though it looks a solid colour and much simpler not having to worry about the way metallic particles rest. The hood/bonnet just looks a bit too vertical if being done in metallic but I suspect not really a huge problem maybe.



All the best


Steve
10-25-2019 06:20 AM
PEEVER hi all I can confirm that shadows and standard cars had stainless steel door frames but coachbuilders always used a brass base which was then cromed you will find standard cars the glass moves in the frame coach built the frame and glass are one.as of interest i found someone on a facebook site painting their car.
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