Bentley Turbo R 1989 wiring! - Rolls-Royce and Bentley Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Bentley Turbo R 1989 wiring!

Hi folks,
I have a 1989 Turbo R which I have purchased as a donor car. It has been completly written off in a bad rear end colision before I bought it.
The vendor I puchased this car from had already started to strip the car for spares and the wiring in the engine bay has been "pruned" ready for engine and transmission removal.

Now here is the question.
Seeing as the engine can no longer be run in the car, I intend to remove it. I need to run the engine on a test stand to verify it's condition before I fit it to another project vehicle.
The car came with all the black boxes disconnected and put in the boot. What do I need to run the engine as a standalone engine, in the way of a basic wiring rig? I believe it is fitted with Bosch Motronic control and that is what I need to wire up to test the engine.
Any help would be gratefully received! Many thanks,
David.

Last edited by ROLLSONWARD; 12-29-2017 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Disloxic
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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No suggestions? surely someone has run up a takeout engine before fitting it to a car?!
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 08:27 AM
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Hi you're going to need at least the crank sensors ignition ecu and amplifiers ,I'm sure the fuel injection will run on mechanical only OK
Mike
PS where about are you?

chassis 27650
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 10:35 AM
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It sounds to me as a complex project if the engine wiring has been taken off.
Yes it should be a Motronic.

I cannot help you more for this unusual project, wait, others may help you more.

Jean

97 Continental R
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! I'm in the UK. I have the ECU and all the other stuff the previous owner took off. He chopped the wiring loom up as he thought it wouldn't matter!
I don't want to go to all the trouble of fitting it in my car only to find out that the motor has troubles of it's own, would rather run it up first. I think 89 was the first year of Motronic? All sensors are still on the engine as far as I can see.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 06:16 PM
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You can still do a compression test.
That will tell you a lot.
However with out a bell housing on the engine, I'm assuming there is no way to mount the starter.
At any rate, you will have to find a way to mount the starter weather you just do a simple compression test or run the engine.

If the engine is still in the car, the compression test will be easy.

As Mike said, the crank sensor for sure, the ECU needs that to get the spark and injection timing.
If there is a cam shaft position sensor, then it should be hooked up as well, but will run with out it.
Same for the MAF (mass air flow sensor) OR MAP (manifold absolute pressure sensor).

There will be a coolant temp sensor too, so the ECU knows to keep the injectors open longer for cold start up.

Your oil pressure sender may also have to be hooked up as well.
Some designs in the ECU will look for oil pressure so it will start/run.
Don't know if Rolls Royce did this.

If the fuel injection system is of the return-less type, then that's fairly straight forward to hook up.
Early fuel injection systems had a fuel return line, so requires more plumping to hook up.

Throttle position sensor _ will run with out it though.
Air intake charge temperature sensor _ used for cold start _ tells the ECU the ambient air temperature _ should start with out it though.
This will be found in the air intake tube after the air cleaner, or somewhere, where the air flows into the engine.

Shouldn't have to worry about the oxygen sensors, they won't be used on start cold start up.

Don't run the engine for more the 2 minutes, a minute and a half is better.
Will over heat and ruin the engine.

You can hook up the coolant system with a 5 gallon pail of water and hoses if you want.
It will take the engine a little while to heat that volume of water.

EDIT:
IAC (idle air control valve).
There are other names for it.
It will be mounted near the throttle plate.
The ECU controls the idle with this on cold start, it will be wide open at first start.

The car will run with out it, but you have to keep you foot on the gas peddle so the throttle plate stays open.

Last edited by Jeff R 1; 12-31-2017 at 06:21 PM.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 06:24 PM
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What you want to do is possible, but because the engines wiring is all chopped up, it will make the job quite difficult.
Doing a simple compression test will tell how healthy the mechanical part of the engine is.
Eg valves, rings etc...

I would start with that first, if that test fails, there's no need to go any further.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 08:19 PM
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You don't need the starter for the compression test. Take all the plugs out...you should be able to urn the motor over by grabbing the pulley on the crank balancer. Install the compression tester each cylinder as necessary and rotate several times to achieve a reading. At least this will give you a little piece of mind regarding the valve train and whether it will turn over.......however it may have a head gasket issue.. It's a risk all around.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-01-2018, 03:57 AM
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Being an 89 turbo, if it doesn't have an MLS head gasket(s), then it will certainly need them eventually.
It's a given.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-01-2018, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff R 1 View Post
You can still do a compression test.
That will tell you a lot.
However with out a bell housing on the engine, I'm assuming there is no way to mount the starter.
At any rate, you will have to find a way to mount the starter weather you just do a simple compression test or run the engine.

If the engine is still in the car, the compression test will be easy.

As Mike said, the crank sensor for sure, the ECU needs that to get the spark and injection timing.
If there is a cam shaft position sensor, then it should be hooked up as well, but will run with out it.
Same for the MAF (mass air flow sensor) OR MAP (manifold absolute pressure sensor).

There will be a coolant temp sensor too, so the ECU knows to keep the injectors open longer for cold start up.

Your oil pressure sender may also have to be hooked up as well.
Some designs in the ECU will look for oil pressure so it will start/run.
Don't know if Rolls Royce did this.

If the fuel injection system is of the return-less type, then that's fairly straight forward to hook up.
Early fuel injection systems had a fuel return line, so requires more plumping to hook up.

Throttle position sensor _ will run with out it though.
Air intake charge temperature sensor _ used for cold start _ tells the ECU the ambient air temperature _ should start with out it though.
This will be found in the air intake tube after the air cleaner, or somewhere, where the air flows into the engine.

Shouldn't have to worry about the oxygen sensors, they won't be used on start cold start up.

Don't run the engine for more the 2 minutes, a minute and a half is better.
Will over heat and ruin the engine.

You can hook up the coolant system with a 5 gallon pail of water and hoses if you want.
It will take the engine a little while to heat that volume of water.

EDIT:
IAC (idle air control valve).
There are other names for it.
It will be mounted near the throttle plate.
The ECU controls the idle with this on cold start, it will be wide open at first start.

The car will run with out it, but you have to keep you foot on the gas peddle so the throttle plate stays open.


Thankyou very much for that information.
The transmission and bellhousing are still fitted to the rear of the engine along with the starter motor, so no problems there. I intend to drop the front subframe to remove the engine and transmission together I am sure this will be the easier option. The car that the engine is going to to be fitted to is a Silver Spirit (!983) which has thrown a connecting rod through the side of the block at 330,000 miles. I have already fitted all the doner Turbo R suspension and front and rear anti roll bars to the Spirit and if the Turbo R engine proves to be good, which I suspect is, then I will fit the Turbo R diff as well.

Are the crank sensors mounted at the rear of the engine, near the flex plate? and the coolant temperature sensor on top of the thermostat housing? I know this is a major project being that the Spirit is carburated and has no fuel injection so much wiring to do on the Rolls!
I have also discovered that the Bentley firing order is very different to the Rolls engine. As a last resort, could the Rolls inlet manifold and carbs be fitted to the Bentley engine, without the turbo? I know the compression ratio is lower by a point over the Rolls engine but I cant see a problem with that.

What are MLS head gaskets?

The next thing I shall need is a 89 Turbo R wiring diagram

Last edited by ROLLSONWARD; 01-01-2018 at 02:24 PM.
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