Questions for bare metal respray - Rolls-Royce and Bentley Forums
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Questions for bare metal respray

Finally this winter I am having Blue-car, my 69 ragtop resprayed. Luckily I found the perfect painter to do it. They are doing a proper job, removing all trim, stripping to bare metal, using only Glasurit paint, etc. (my dream come true for Blue-car...)


Couple of questions. He isn't an RR specialist, but a Classic car paint expert. But we both want to do a job as RR would do it.

How should we have the door jambs done? does anyone know how they did the painting at Park Ward's in 69? Did they paint the car body with the doors off, and paint the jambs at the same time as painting the rest of the car? Or did they do the jambs separately (ahead of time), then mask them off, then put the doors on, then spray?

Was the any tape line, or any visible transition between the door jamb painting and the rest of the car?

My car has had both rear quarters resprayed so I can't go by what is there.

If I were to do it in an improper manner would the value of the car be effected? (He said he could use a special type of "no line" tape, maybe foam take I don't know). I don't want to go through the whole thing and do it in a way that will be visibly wrong...

I sort of wish there was a way to do it properly with the doors on but I doubt that's how it was done. But who knows? Maybe someone here...

Then I have to decide on the colour! The car is silver mink exterior with blue everflex convertible top, and 3209 blue vaumol interior. As built. Everyone says to keep the original colour, which I do like. They made 18 of them with this exterior colour. But I could have any colour I want. I love black, but many folks say black cars with blue leather are not common and may be a liability. (of course I'd like to change the interior to red, and black exterior is ideal for that). but the interior is almost perfect condition and changing it just for colour is silly.

What do you guys think. Is silver mink good enough? I am not wasting a paint job if I keep that colour? (everyone says they love it, but they are comparing it to the beige hyundai next to it). I like the colour fine, but it doesn't particularly show the chrome off very well. Of course now it is faded, so it doesn't show the curves of the car well either. I just don't want to find out afterwards that I painted it the wrong colour. I had a death in my family and I though painting the car black was an appropriate tribute, but the man who died hated black, so I don't want to do something for him that he would hate. (don't say that doesn't matter) Anyway that was one excuse why to paint it black. There are probably lots of black ragtops extant. My ideal is mason's black, black top, with 3171 red interior. but I don't have money to change the interior and the top (which is only 2 years old). The paint is getting done now because it is needed, and the guy who will do it isn't gonna live forever. If I don't get a better idea it will just be silver mink again. a little on the aquamarine side, like it came with. some formulas of silver mink are just plain silver, I am not getting that.

Any help or ideas are appreciated. Especially on the door jamb painting thing.

Schmitt's had a car similar for sale last year, although it was photographed under phony lighting and doesn't resemble the colour as it looks outside (which is much better). And that car also has a tan top which doesn't compliment the car very well. Silver mink usually was done with a dark blue top.

https://www.schmitt.com/inventory/19...ner-park-ward/

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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 01:17 PM
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I did a total strip down of my 1980 SWII. I can help answer questions regarding trim removal, some of it can be tricky. Stripping the door jambs and doors can be time con$uming. Best to use a primer-sealer and spray with the final color. Doors and then shut and use a "foam tape" just inside the door gap.
Will the painter use a single or 2 stage paint?

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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 01:40 PM
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Black and blue in my opinion looks wrong, but that's just me. I would agree with what everyone else is telling you. Stay with original colors. Especially given the effort you're going through as you'll never be able to cover all the original paint unless you strip the shell down completely.

As far as how to? However the painter wants to as he's the expert and having him do something differently to what he does usually won't 'improve' things.

Technology has moved on since the 60's and there are new paint systems available. I suspect that metal etch primer was used before followed by primer and paint. These days , most people would use an epoxy primer to seal the metal before applying primer and paint. Removing and dissembling the doors , trunk and hood and painting them all separately will give you the finish you're looking for.

Single stage can be used for solid colors, but base/clear for metallic. Again, whatever the painter is used to using is what you should go with.

Last edited by alabbasi; 10-17-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 02:11 PM
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Hi,


You have to do it properly or you will lose it's value.


Screen OUT, doors off, window frames out, bonnet off, boot off and all rubbers removed etc etc.


Patterned outer rubbers for door/window frame replacements are not good and I don't know if any originals are able to be got for a corniche but if you short cut it will look like the picture in no time at all. Just the mention of 'lining tape' or 'foam in shut lines' would put me off. The only time lining tape would be needed would be if you intended a dual colour.


Prep, prep, prep and more prep and it is costly but worth the expense.


Also when trim removed make sure it is not allowed to be stored badly as permanent indents will be made in the surfaces if anything is put on top of it or leather parts put in contact with each other can cause damage.



Just my opinion
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Last edited by Steve E; 10-17-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 04:42 PM
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Foam tape is not for 2-color exterior paint jobs.

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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the help guys...

ok so in any case, they are not going to do two colours, no 2 tone. I am 99% sure the car will just be original colour which is silver mink. It has a dark blue everflex ragtop and vm3209 dark blue leather. It's just slightly intriguing to have a choice, as this is the only time in my lifetime I will ever choose the colour of any Rolls Royce of my own.


I don't want to do this job at all if it isn't going to be correct, that is, the way the factory did it. The only thing I am doing "wrong" is I am not using lacquer paints. I am using "Glasurit 55 Line" catalyzed solvent borne urethane paints. Since it is metallic it is going to have clear coat on top of base coat. The whole car stripped to bare metal, all trim, parts, all rubber removed. Metal will be cleaned with the metal prep solvent that glasurit specifies for their primer, then we will use glasurit Chromated Epoxy primer, which is the best epoxy there is, (and being discontinued next year due to 4 of the heavy metal poisons it has in it). ($525 for a 3.5L can of primer and the hardner for it.)

So I have a pretty fair idea how to do it. I got a 1,000 page textbook, and researched about 100 hours online.

The question comes to how they did the masking in the factory and how the doors were painted, either on the car or off of it? The job will take 5 months, and this is a long time coming. I don't want it to look like a mercenary dealer respray like 70% of the Corniches seem to be these days. Besides that, it is my only car, it has to last a long time.

I am unsure how to remove the chrome trim at the beltline, I suppose I will only find out after the glass is all out. this is very different than the 4 door shadows.

I will need to buy a new rubber seal for the windscreen; do I need to buy Genuine for this or is the Introcar the same thing in a different box? Someone mentioned the repro rubber parts not being good. (the 2 door windscreen is different shape than the regular shadow screen, so takes a different rubber gasket). When I got a repro replacement trunk seal from Replacement parts, it looked ok but never fit right. Not sure what to do about that, will do something else with that. Maybe update the trunk seal to the newer type.

One thing I am doing for sure is having the fender holes filled, where they had the rear view mirrors mounted directly above the front wheel arches. I took those mirrors off 15 years ago and put chrome buttons in those holes. That was the "elephant ear" type mirrors you see in some 66-69 shadows. At least on this year car, there was a provision for a side door mirrors without drilling into the doors, and I was able to get NOS 1969 door mirrors.

And I am having the european license plate mounting holes welded up because for the time being I am only going to use it in the USA, where license plates are only half the proper width (and too tall as well).

And I will need to unfasten the top from the rear deck of the car so they can strip and paint all the metal there.

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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 10:46 PM
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You will find how to remove the trim and everything else for that matter in the FSM. The leading edge of the belt trim is held with a "shoe" that has a stud. The shoe slides into the trim strip and is secured by a nut on the shoes' stud. Access is eith from the fender well with the inner fenders removed or thru the headlamps once they are removed. The rear of the trim is usually held with a visible nut in the door jamb. The trim is held with plastic retainers and will likely need to be replaced. There is a plastic retainer that is inserted into the body, retainers are then slid into the channel, and then lined up and pushed to adhere.
You will need many of these and suggest looking at the Flying Spares website to see what you're dealing with.
I had no issues with the front windscreen gasket from Replacement Parts. The door seals held by a channel on the door with no adhesive.

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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraithman View Post
Foam tape is not for 2-color exterior paint jobs.

Wow that took some 'word smithing' to come up with that twisted false fake comment.


No one used the word foam tape......read read read read.


Lining tape IS used to do dual colours which is what I said. It simply creates a much sharper definitive line unlike masking tape where the paint can creep through as the glue is not uniform and varies by its 'TACK' rating



Foam in shut gaps is used generally in minor repairs where it is not worth the strip down of major panels. It prevents the paint from creating a solid line similar to what is termed 'back masking'. The thought of discussing a bare metal respray where foam in shut gaps was mentioned would ring bells as 'NO EXPERIENCE' 'COWBOY' and many other terms.


Avoid twisting words in an effort to make diatribe comments


Steve....who had his own bodyshop, paintshop, trim shop and workshops at Jaguar/AM and built all engineering prototypes.

Last edited by Steve E; 10-18-2019 at 02:15 AM.
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraithman View Post
The leading edge of the belt trim is held with a "shoe" that has a stud. The shoe slides into the trim strip and is secured by a nut on the shoes' stud. Access is eith from the fender well with the inner fenders removed or thru the headlamps once they are removed. The rear of the trim is usually held with a visible nut in the door jamb. The trim is held with plastic retainers and will likely need to be replaced. There is a plastic retainer that is inserted into the body, retainers are then slid into the channel, and then lined up and pushed to adhere.
You will need many of these and suggest looking at the Flying Spares website to see what you're dealing with.



Very misleading IMHO the Corniche only has the lower cill/rocker and bonnet trim held in with the plastic cups and clips. So nowhere near the amount of trim clips needed. There is a metal retention clip on all 3 strips that has a 2ba nut that has to be removed. The front bonnet nut is accessed easier when bonnet has been removed and best trim replaced after paint before bonnet refit otherwise very difficult to access that nut.


You would need a very looooooonnnnnggg arm to get to any trim nut on a Corniche through the headlamp fitting



The lower finishers you do have to get to the front nut, but there should be a small aluminium plate cover screwed onto the rear lower of the fibreglass wheelarch liner which providing you have small hands can just get into remove it.


Personally whilst a pain I would remove the front wheel arch liners as it will make welding up the wing mirror holes much easier.




Steve........who reads what people say
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 03:40 AM
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Hi,


In response to the specific question whether RR painted the bare body shell in factory with doors on or off I suspect it was with doors ON as when I repainted my car there was no paint underneath the hinges.


That aside to do a bare metal respray properly you really do need to take the doors OFF just to nicely remove all the old paint.


Different auto companies however had various methods of dealing with the paint process. Some would do it with doors OFF but run jigs holding the doors alongside the car shell and others would add specific spacers to the door hinges that allowed the doors to rest offset and give more access into the door jamb.


When spraying metallic it is very important to have the panels in the correct orientation to the matching panel. My car was a solid colour so the doors were painted totally separately.


Metallic paints however rely on the small particles in the paint being applied in same direction and orientation otherwise despite being the same paint from the same tin can look totally different at various angles. You can see this on many brand new modern cars especially where the front and rear plastic bumpers mate to the body. As these parts are not painted at the same time as the metal body they can at certain angles look a totally different shade.



Hope this helps


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