Questions for bare metal respray - Page 3 - Rolls-Royce and Bentley Forums
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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 10:46 AM
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I forgot to address the lower rocker panel stainless trim. As you know there is an access plate there(on both sides) to remove the nut. These can be brittle and corrosion over the years do not help. Gain access and use PB Blaster and let it sit. I use a deep socket by hand to remove.
I would suggest, if you want to be thorough, to remove the rear inner-fender section so you have complete access to this cavity. It is a known debris and moist trap area so cleaning, and few shots of Rust-O-Leum rusty metal primer will offer good protection going forward. You will notice older cars with this area being rusted. I had a 1967 in the shop with this issue and we caught early.

1980 SWII LRL-41587C FInj
1976 SS LWB LRE-23114 Harkness RR
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Wraithman

I think I will take out those fender liners. they will be able to see what is happening in there. it's almost stupid not to investigate that now to make sure no rust is starting from behind.

Are deep ba sockets available?

I will put the pb blaster on there days in advance good idea.

Use your PMC for mental therapy. I replaced my psychiatrist with a PMC. Thirty minutes of driving per day is more effective than doctors and drugs.
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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 11:30 AM
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Hi again,


I agree the early side lights are a bit of carbuncle but I do like originality. I also like my round front TEX wing mirrors so would never replace them. I don't like the Desmo ones though that were sort of square/oval shape they stuck out too far.


Re the wheel discs again there were a few different types. Are yours the full size solid one or the ones that had the outer ring and hub.


Mine are the later type with the slots which I like as damage is done when trying to lever off usually but I place two 15mm flat ring spanners into slots 180 degrees apart then turn them and slide to end of slots. I quick hard pull then releases the wheel trim without damage to the outer edge.


However a good panel beater should be able to starighten them and being stainless imperfections can be rubbed down and the polished up.


You have most things covered now from your enquiries but keep them coming and if you have not got your front screen out yet ask us because it has to be done a special way to avoid glass breaking.


Wraithman and I do it different ways but both work safely. Also refitting with new rubber and forming the finisher to the glass is essential.



Best regards


Steve
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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 11:52 AM
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I recall using a 5/16 x 1/4 deep socket or maybe 9/32 and it worked fine.

There is a RR protocol for wheelcover removal. They recommend using the valve stem as a reference point (at 12 o'clock) and going to the right at 2 o'clock, at that point there is a nub on the wheel where the tool can be inserted. When the wrong tool or procedure is used it usually results in outward dimples on the cover.

1980 SWII LRL-41587C FInj
1976 SS LWB LRE-23114 Harkness RR
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for all your help guys!! I know I ask a lot and write too long. No need to answer these immediately, even though I sometimes write back quickly. This job will not be done until march at the earliest. We haven't even stripped the car yet.

As to the layers of paint Steve, that is true you have to let the solvent of each layer come out at a proper speed. If the outer finish dries too soon before the solvent underneath has cured, it will erupt out of there later on. Solvent pop. I think that is what you were talking about.


What I was trying to say before, (using wrong words and sentences), was how they are making clear coats that bond chemically with the colour coats underneath, to create effectively, a single unit. Similar to what can be done with a two part epoxy. if you wait too long before recoating, you lose the abitlty of the two layers to bond chemically into a single layer, and in that case the only way to get your next layer to stick is to sand the prior coat to get a mechanical bond. On the other hand, if you don't wait long enough, you get what I believe you were talking about, which is trapped solvent. This happens also when folks use too fast of a reducer, or put too many coats on too quickly. That is why there is a "recoat window". Can't be too early nor too late, lest consequence befall.

This is where we use experts.

Use your PMC for mental therapy. I replaced my psychiatrist with a PMC. Thirty minutes of driving per day is more effective than doctors and drugs.
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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 12:26 PM
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Spirit , that's is what happened to me a long time ago with my first base/clearcoat project. Luckily it was a friends VW, but none the less I waited too long to top with clear and it did not bond well and weeks later peeled off. I miss the lacquer days!
I also had issues with another project with solvent pop. The new paints require alot of reading and practice and there is alot of chemistry involved.
Whenever I get involved with new projects I call the company and today we have Youtube which helps alot.
You're on the right path with your research. You may want to strip the car yourself and save money in the process or else the paint shop will happily charge you.

1980 SWII LRL-41587C FInj
1976 SS LWB LRE-23114 Harkness RR
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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 12:32 PM
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Hi,


Not sure about a nub on the wheel but it is exactly where on the full size trim there is a hole in the metal wheel and a clip in the back of the wheel trim so logically to place the lever in that position. The number of times I have seen the clip on the trim bent or broken because people have not lined that up into the hole when replacing.



I still prefer my method though when the trim has slots as absolutely no damage possible on the thin outer edge. That said protocol is essential if the solid full wheel finisher.


Steve
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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. You will be happy to know, I have asked not a single question in this latest installment of the saga!!

I am sorry to hear about the trouble with that paint job, that is very disconcerting, and it makes such a mess when that happens. I have had many cars where the clear came off. Often I just polished up the basecoat and kept driving until the car died. (disposable 1990s american garbage)

I happened to read in my textbook last night about the first days of doing base coat/clear coat paint, and why so many thousands of cars had failures of clearcoat to stay on the cars.

The trouble was, they were using two different types of paint that were not compatible. For the base coat they used a lacquer or enamel based product that was not catalized. it was a "1 pack" paint as they say in England. then for the clear coat they sprayed that on top of the base coat without sanding the basecoat at all. This clear coat was a catalyzed "2 pack" urethane or enamel, which couldn't chemically bond with the base coat. Since the base coat wasn't sanded, there was no mechanical bond either. (sanding base coat before clear coat is a bad situation because the sanding scratches show through unless you use 600, and then they aren't deep enough to provide much mechanical bond, but it probably would be enough to keep paint on the car in the easiest of conditions, and they didn't even do that at these new car factories).

Now these days, in the aftermarket (not at new car factories anymore), some folks still use a single component base coat with a catalyzed clear coat. I am not going to do this! I don't even like the idea of clear coat and don't understand why we used to have metallic single stage paints but now you have to have a clear coat on top of it. I am going to use a catalyzed 2 pack base coat, and a 2 pack clear coat, both from the same company (the best car paint company there is), and those two layers will bond chemically with each other like glue. He will spray them within the recoat window, so no sanding will be necessary and they won't be able to separate layers once they both cure. These catalyzed paints cure without any air needed, so we don't have to worry about the underneath layer getting suffocated by the top layer. This was the problem with some of the new car factories. The lacquer underneath couldn't ever finish drying completely, and it's solvent eventually came up and sat between the two coats and pushed the clear right off. Mainly I am glad that other folks understand this stuff, otherwise I wouldn't even use this newfangled paint.

I miss the lacquer days too, and if I could have gotten good lacquer I would have painted the whole car myself. the new paints are not really paint so much as they are chemicals. They are an accident waiting to happen if you don't follow every direction for each product, plus examine the matrix sheets which tell you which products can go over which other ones, and which products can go under which other products, and what the time windows are for all of those!

Even with all this, even the guru experts have jobs go bad on them, right in the booth. There are other variables, plus the possibility of manufacturing mistakes or more likely, old product. This new stuff has a 1 year shelf life: after that, it's not guaranteed to cure. the better products have dates on the cans. But you have to trust your supplier. At $500 a gallon, it isn't hard to pour old stuff into new cans. Would you like to throw out $25,000 worth of paint just because it is 13 months old? It's all out of control. The whole world. The laws. Everything. Give me some real Acrylic Lacquer, and let me paint my car so it can survive the next 50 years. But NOOO!!! It has lead!!! you will kill us all!!! My dad had his Packard fenders done in acrylic lacquer in 1968, they still look like the day they were painted.

Cheerio

Use your PMC for mental therapy. I replaced my psychiatrist with a PMC. Thirty minutes of driving per day is more effective than doctors and drugs.
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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 01:15 PM
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Well said Spirit.. I remember painting my 1957 Corvette under a carport. Lacquer is so forgiving. Make a mistake, sand it out and move on.
Now there is so much chemistry it is mind boggling to the lacquer generation.

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1976 SS LWB LRE-23114 Harkness RR
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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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And lacquer was so fast. So beautiful when done. Really the absolute height of technology was in the late 1960s. Everything since then is a complication with unwanted consequences. Folks trying to think of different ways to do things we already could do so elegantly. I think of people in 1950 who were able to whisper calmly to each other on the wonderful telephone. Now we have to say, "you are breaking up" "can you hear me now"? My battery is dying we can't talk anymore. In the 60s they were bouncing our calls off of satellites, with crystal clarity. Now they can't get our handset signal to go half a mile to the nearest tower without breaking up. our cars would run with air, gas, and 12v positive to the coil. Now we need a bundle of wires 3" thick and a computer.



1.) I have one thing to add that may be helpful. I have found even using the prescribed 1 oclock position to remove the wheel covers that the tommy bar still bends the outer edges.(I have the full wheel covers without slots in them, as came on 1966-1969 RR). I realized the tommy bar is too thick to fit without bending the hubcap permanently. However, I tried using a very large Stanley #20 screwdriver, 16" long (for slotted screws not phillips). This tool has a thinner shaft than the tommy bar, and can remove the hubcap every time with impunity, using the 1 o'clock position with respect to the valve stem. I then put this tool in my car trunk large tools so it will always be there. And catch the hubcap before it hits the pavement! or use a cloth. The screwdriver I use was made in 1959, so you won't find Stanley #20 in the stores now. But any long large flat blade screwdriver ought to work.

My car is early enough that it doesn't have the clocking peg on the hubcaps so the hubcaps will rotate relative to the wheels if the brakes are applied too hastily. Keep an eye on this, lest it chop off your valve stem. Our 88 spur has heavy truck iron type valve stems that are bolted into the wheel, so this can't happen.





2.) Steve, your car is very pretty! I just now saw your photo of the front. On your car, with that colour and that 4 door body design I think I like the mirrors mounted on the wings! It looks perfect! Those are exactly what my car came with, those nice round ones. They don't seem to stick out on your car, but on my car, such a light coloured car, they look terrible! I got some old stock RR mirrors that mount to the window frame with a tiny bracket. I think they use the same round mirrors that were mounted on the fenders. I probably could have just bought the brackets, but they came in a kit with those gorgeous RR boxes with red and brown stripes on them!!!! I had to have all those 6 boxes! And inside were zip lock baggies with silver and red and brown RR and B stripes on them!!! Oh my just thinking about them is fantastic! (I am a brand snob, plus I greatly lament the loss of the Old Company, and think its Kafkaesque how RR sold RR Motors to Vickers, then Vickers sold RR motors to VW, then RR bought Vickers a year afterwards.)

I know what you mean, and agree, about those other shaped mirrors, odd, like a squared off version of Mercedes Benz mirrors, wider at the outboard edge, a design based on utility and visual coverage of the cars behind you.

Use your PMC for mental therapy. I replaced my psychiatrist with a PMC. Thirty minutes of driving per day is more effective than doctors and drugs.
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