Arnage EPC Throttle Control - Rolls-Royce and Bentley Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
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Arnage EPC Throttle Control

My 2008 Arnage T has "failed to proceed" Fault shown on the display is EPC Throttle Control. The car starts, idles for a second then stops. Pushing the throttle to the floor and starting it with the throttle held down makes no difference other than the car goes straight to high revs then shuts down. The fault is intermittant, it'll stay immobilised for a few days then miraculously start and run fine. The car has a Bentley Heritage warranty, was returned to the supplying agent JCT 600, but they claim no fault codes have been logged and that is has started every time with them. Any ideas gratefully received-thanks
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 12:13 PM
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Well, why it should matter whether a code is logged or not is beyond me. It is not at all uncommon for certain transient faults to be cleared when they have not reccurred for some number of turn off/start up cycles.

The message you've received suggests that something is intermittently failing in the electronic throttle control. Why they wouldn't be looking at that is a mystery to me. A bad solder joint can cause weird intermittent issues like this (as can other things) but it's ridiculous that they're not digging into the electronic throttle control system just because there's no stored code. How I hate the fact that far too many service facilities depend strictly on whether or not there are active or historical OBD codes stored and refusing to act in any way if there are not! How many owners would ever even have seen the message you've seen and reported. That message is just as important as anything stored by OBD.

Brian

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2017, 10:56 AM
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They could be waiting for the warranty to expire. It's an old dealer trick, can't find the problem, then the warranty expires, and then you get the bill.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-31-2017, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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They'll have a long bloody wait, the Bentley warranty expires march 2019 lol
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyslp View Post
Well, why it should matter whether a code is logged or not is beyond me. It is not at all uncommon for certain transient faults to be cleared when they have not reccurred for some number of turn off/start up cycles.

The message you've received suggests that something is intermittently failing in the electronic throttle control. Why they wouldn't be looking at that is a mystery to me. A bad solder joint can cause weird intermittent issues like this (as can other things) but it's ridiculous that they're not digging into the electronic throttle control system just because there's no stored code. How I hate the fact that far too many service facilities depend strictly on whether or not there are active or historical OBD codes stored and refusing to act in any way if there are not! How many owners would ever even have seen the message you've seen and reported. That message is just as important as anything stored by OBD.
It's a tricky call Brian. Do you spend £5k on fitting new units? £5k on stripping everything down looking for a dry soldered joint? Spend a fortune just to find the fault is still there? A local dealer would regularly spend thousands of pounds doing that. A great way to make clients unhappy. Warranties pay for fixing faults. Not trying to fix them and failing.

Electronics are a nightmare!!

Are both your batteries in very good condition? Do you use a maintenance charger? Does it happen the day after you've taken it for a perfect drive or just some time after not been driven?

Have you driven it immediately for a diagnostic read once it does start WITHOUT turning the engine off before being read.

Are there ZERO fault codes stored? Induce a fault code and see if it gets stored. (short a pug lead to earth or pull a sensor off.

Off the top of my head . . . I think. . . . Earlier cars do not include the throttle control on the Mastercheck. It has it's own ECU and components on a completely different system. All the engine ECU sees is the throttle position sensor moving. If the throttle control is not motoring the throttle the engine ecu may just assume it's not being pressed. Having said that, that will not usually make the engine die (so I would expect a fault code for that) (but could do I guess).

You also used to be able to reset throttle position by turning the ignition on and pressing fully down and off on the throttle 5 or 6 times. Resets min and max settings. Not sure if that's true on yours.

It's very easy to criticise when somebody can't find an intermittent fault, but more than a good few times I've spent weeks using clients cars to pop out to do errands and never have a fault occur for me, only to give it back and it occur the next day/week. I'm very lucky to be rural and know I can use a car daily and safely without any problems around here. Workshops in cities do not have that luxury because parking and/or causing gridlock if a car FTP is a nightmare!

Regards, Paul Yorke.
EverythingRollsRoyce.com
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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I cant really answer the questions regarding batteries etc as the car broke down on the second day of my ownership. It had been driven a long distance, a few hundred miles, and refused to run twice immediately after that journey (new car, i must be doing something wrong i thought)On the third attempt it ran and drove fine. Following day, started and ran fine, i returned home tried to start it a few hours later, a no go. Thats the way it stayed for the next 3-4 days until the recovery truck arrived to collect it whereupon, it bloody started and ran fine !! The unit definately senses the difference between me not touching the throttle and me holding it to the floor. On the latter, the car initially revs then dies. JCT600 (Bentley franchise dealer) have said they are consulting Bentley Technical to see if they have any ideas
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 01:34 PM
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Have the warranty applied and be strong on that.
If you are in UK, there are top level ingeneers for electronic issues.
You bought a car with a warranty, it should work ( the car and the warranty)

I will just make one point, all ways to start a car such as booster or cables...are electronic killers and give a wide range of symptoms, yours is part of them...and garage abuse of exterior system to start those cars.
A good batteyr and a permanent charger is the secret. Even a low battery could destro electronic at the moement you try to start.

Jean

Continental R . 1997
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by EverythingRollsRoyce View Post
It's very easy to criticise when somebody can't find an intermittent fault, but more than a good few times I've spent weeks using clients cars to pop out to do errands and never have a fault occur for me, only to give it back and it occur the next day/week. I'm very lucky to be rural and know I can use a car daily and safely without any problems around here. Workshops in cities do not have that luxury because parking and/or causing gridlock if a car FTP is a nightmare!
What I am criticizing is that, based upon the report here, they didn't even try to find the fault.

If they did, that's a different story, but I know of far too many technicians whose approach is, "I can't pull a code, therefore nothing is wrong." That's wrong.

The message mentioned gives a clear area in which to do at least a thorough check of all connections (preferably using some sort of deoxidizer, e.g., Caig DeOxIt, on same) as a start. There is more than enough there to warrant more effort and less attitude that the original poster has reported he received.

Brian

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
~ Niels Bohr


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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 05:18 PM
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That I agree I work for an independent garage in Milton Keynes it is family owned now with the new electronics we have had to buy new kit which cost thousands in itself we recently had n Aston Martin in exactly same fault the customer had already spent 3k on parts with other people we had it 2 weeks it went through extensive testing especially with a scope based tool called Pico scope now without patience and this tool you would have never found it it turned out to be a faulty fuel control ecu the customer was over the moon we had cracked it so anyone worth their salt and competent should be able to carry out these tests oh and never assume what the car is telling you is the truth lol
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-08-2017, 06:49 PM
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. . .oh and never assume what the car is telling you is the truth lol
About which anyone who's ever dealt with OBD systems extensively can only say, Amen!!

While a code or codes can sometimes lead you straight to the problem there are plenty of instances where a "cascade effect" occurs where the root cause is upstream somewhere, and perhaps unmonitored directly by the OBD, that causes a code to finally be thrown downstream from the problem. [I've never seen the reverse, unless the communication is bi-directional, in which case upstream and downstream are functions of which direction you're talking about].

These systems are not meant to substitute for other diagnostic skills. One big one, and simple once you know about it and have experienced it, is that a weak battery can be the root cause of all kinds of codes being thrown, particularly at startup time.

Brian

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
~ Niels Bohr


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