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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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engine oil recommendations

Hi All
I know this has been asked before (but always went off on a tangent) but what engine oil grade(s) are best for a '89 turbo? with 85k miles on.
I would like to know others experiences and recommendations.
Cheers
Mike

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 05:52 AM
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Mike,
Here is my opinion: our engines have flat tappets, in contrast to roller ones. Flat tappets, a simple but somewhat antique engineering solution, need oil with a higher amount of ZDDP (zink) than what is found in modern oils.
In contradiction to the opinion of some very qualified members of this forum, it is my strong belief that modern oils will ruin the camshaft (plus tappets) on the long run.
This is the only oil I could source in Europe with enough ZDDP:
http://www.aircraftspruce.eu/engine-...il-15w-40.html
Alternatively, you can use an additive with the oil of your choice, this is an additive which is safe to use with catalytic converters:
http://www.aircraftspruce.eu/camguar...ditive-8oz.htm


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Originally Posted by mikebentleyturbo2 View Post
Hi All
I know this has been asked before (but always went off on a tangent) but what engine oil grade(s) are best for a '89 turbo? with 85k miles on.
I would like to know others experiences and recommendations.
Cheers
Mike
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks JP
I went off and read about aviation oils and additives and found this youmay find interesting
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/oil_..._197096-1.html
Cheers
Mike

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 11:37 AM
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Everyone has to go the way their mind leads them after doing their own reading and research, but please do those first. I can see no reason to doubt what the petroleum certification bodies, which have been in existence since before I was born, have to say with regard to the oil performance characteristics of various oils meeting contemporary specs. They are, after all, the very people who invented the specs.

[Links in this document were active as of 5/5/2015]

Reading through the API & ILSAC motor oil standards/specifications for current (API SN/ILSAC GF-5)
oils and the preceding specs should put anyone's mind to rest about the suitability of currently available
motor oils for use in older car engines. On the API website, they explicitly state, "For automotive gasoline
engines, the latest engine oil service category includes the performance properties of each earlier category.
If an automotive owner's manual calls for an API SJ or SL oil, an API SM oil will provide full protection."
[See: http://www.api.org/certification-pro...ce-categories]
For oils for gasoline-powered engines, each and every specification meets or exceeds the performance of all
of its predecessors. This means that there has been a continuous improvement in lubrication performance
and that oils meeting current specifications are far more than "adequate" for older engines.

API Materials:

Motor Oil Matters Guide (2013), "Which Oil is Right for You?" -
http://www.api.org/certification-pro...GLISH_2013.pdf

Full API 1509 Spec - 17th Ed - September 2012
(Addendum 10/2014 & Errata 3/2015,Includes ILSAC GF-5 Spec in Appendix Q)
http://www.api.org/~/media/files/cer...2515.pdf?la=en


ILSAC Final GF-5 Spec:
http://www.gf-5.com/uploads/File/ILS...2-09_final.pdf


and, from the Mobil Oil Q&A Site:

On needing to Mix Oils for ZDDP Levels:
https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-...r-classic-cars
I find it interesting that even on this "answers" page the statement is made that a
particular one of their oils, "already contains a higher level of ZDDP (1000 ppm) that
*could* benefit your flat tappet engine." [emphasis on that could is mine]. I have yet
to find a single manufacturer who states either "will" or "does," but instead couches
the statements in ways such that the preconceived notion is addressed.

On Purported "Removal" of Zinc & Phosphorous from motor oil:
https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-...rom-motor-oils


Mobil Oil Product Table, including Zinc & Phosphorus Levels:
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...ecs-guide.ashx

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following also makes for interesting reading:

Gary Phipps on Motor Oil Additive Misstatements

The reports of changes in oil additives have been falsely reported as having happened continuously for nearly 15 years. It’s 99.99% rumor with little factual basis. The last diesel change was when diesel oil specs went from CI (2002) to CJ in 2010. There have been no changes since then.

Zinc itself is not limited in any way. It’s the companion element, phosphorous, which is regulated. ZDDP is also not a single ingredient but a class of thousands of different compounds of varying utility making the actual level not so critical. There are also more modern additives that do a similar job that are not zinc based. Zinc is just the CHEAP way to do that job.

All the major diesel oils not only meet a diesel spec (CJ, etc) but also a gasoline engine spec the latest of which is SN. They are approved for either type of engine except possibly for catalyst equipped cars. (If your valve stems seals are bad the increased oil consumption could possibly damage your cat. Change the seals when needed.) There was a second round of false predictions of impending doom when the gasoline spec went from SM to SN. That was complete hot air since the SN spec did not require any such changes; the EP additive spec for SN was identical to SM. However, I know of none of the doomsters who retracted their predictions. Instead of prohibiting them, both specs REQUIRE such additives. It is a companion 'Energy Conservation' GF specification that requires lower levels of phosphorous but it only applies to oils that are 'Energy Conserving'; it does not apply to diesel oils and is not part of the SN spec. Even GF-5 did not change any of those requirements compared to GF-4.

To paraphrase Mark Twain: The report of the death of zinc additives was an exaggeration.

Brian

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
~ Niels Bohr


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 07:24 AM
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Mike, yes, excellent reading material and familiar with that, piston-powered aviation engines have there own issues!
Glad I am paid to fly jets these days...

As for Brian's opinion, he may be right and I may be wrong, but my opinion is to go the old-fashioned way as long as there are oils available that I know for sure to be safe.
Here's a camshaft that I pulled from a german-made motor of the 80s: ? did I forget how to add images on this forum, someone help please )))
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP_Corniche View Post
did I forget how to add images on this forum, someone help please )))
No, you didn't forget. There was (and apparently, still is) a major problem with the old "drag & drop" picture attach function so it was disabled.

In order to attach pictures you need to be using the "advanced" editing page (that is, not quick reply and I think the button if you're in quick reply reads "Go Advanced" or some such).

Beneath the compose box if you scroll down a bit you will see the "Additional Options" section and the "Manage Attachments" button.

Once you hit the "Manage Attachments" button you get a good, old-fashioned dialog that allows you to browse for files to attach. Just be sure to hit the "Upload" button after you've selected the photos you wish to attach or your work will be for naught. Once the upload is confirmed there is a "Close Window" button at the bottom of that dialog.

Brian

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
~ Niels Bohr


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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Hi All
Thanks for the great info and advice.
I have decided to use a 10w 40 semi synthetic and a zddp & viscosity additive, you could say I'm sitting on the fence lol ��.
Look forward to seeing your cam jp
Thanks again ��
Mike

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 08:29 PM
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I picked up some Mobil 1 0w40 full synthetic. Here's a link saying that the ZDDP is sufficient:

https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-...r-classic-cars

Running oil pressure looks good on the gauge, it dips a bit low on idle but I think it's okay.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2016, 12:07 AM
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Here's that camshaft lobe. It's toast.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg camshaft_z.jpg (218.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg camshaft_i.jpg (148.4 KB, 16 views)
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2016, 03:53 AM Thread Starter
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Hi jp
Yes that's toast, how many miles had it done? What car ��?
What jets? , I started a pilot course but was talked out of it, a decision I still regret ������
Cheers
Mike

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