Brake fluid Silver Shadow 1 - Rolls-Royce and Bentley Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Brake fluid Silver Shadow 1

As this car advised to fill with with Dot 3 only says on the reservoir-cap; however i heard that it can be mixed with dot 4 as long as it is mineral oil (not synthetic!!)

There is Dot 3 synthetic brake fluid so it seems. Can this be put in the Silver Shadow 1?

Does anyone know?






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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 12:15 PM
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Absolutely not. I dont care what anyone says or advises but after 30 years with Rolls-Royce I have learnt you must use nothing else but Castrol 363. Other may "seem" to work but will cause problems "down the track". If you have already added "something else", I suggest you drain and re-fill with 363.

Rodd Sala - Park-Ward Motors

http://park-ward-motors.com/
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 12:22 PM
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Hemmo,

If you want to stay with factory recommendations, and this is one case where I really think you should, use only RR363 brake fluid.

This is the only Crewe specified brake fluid for the SY series cars that predate the conversion to mineral oil systems. It is a DOT3 fluid that contains additional lubricating additives for the brake pumps, which were very prone to failure when Girling Green and Girling Amber DOT3 formulations were used. I believe yours is an early car, and the warning on the reservoir tanks was changed after the failures and reformulations of the fluid to arrive at RR363 were complete. This is all easily researched in the RROC-AustraliaTee-One Topics Archive and other RR/Bentley related sites on the internet.

Whatever you do, do not use straight DOT3 brake fluid for any extended period of time. I have used straight DOT3 when I am performing a hydraulic system flush/purge since it virtually all drains after that.

There are some who are using DOT3 or DOT4 fluid with castor oil added to it around 10% and I know of at least one person using straight DOT4, but in both cases the cars have not had sufficient time to determine whether brake pump failure will occur.

I would love to find a safe and functional equivalent to RR363, particularly one that is not hygroscopic like DOT3 fluids are and that does not require changing out the fluid every two years, religiously. RR363 is also ridiculously expensive as ours were the only cars to use it.

Were I really brave I'd consider experimenting with Texaco BioStar hydraulic fluid at the viscosity nearest to RR363. It's not hygroscopic, is derived from plant materials, and could work very well. Knowing what I know about the expense and difficulty of rebuilding the brake pumps, and the increasing difficulty of obtaining parts, I'm not really brave.

Brian

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Brake fluid Silver Shadow 1

Thanks, i see and i just "googled" about it.

Castrol RR363 has added castor-oil to lubricate the brake-pumps.

Haven't mixed it with anything yet.

I'll order it on EBAY.UK





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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Brake fluid Silver Shadow 1

And thank you too Brian,

Castrol RR363 (1 liter) is for sale on EBAY.UK for 10,99 GBP, but postage is at least 6 GBP it seems. Anyway, i'll not be brave to try anything else.

My system only needs a little filling-up



BTW. My brake-cap says: Castrol girling green recommended






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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 04:23 PM
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brake fluid shadow 1

agree with what else has been said only use RR 363 on shadows . Dont forget the brakes system has approx 2500 psi in system when working so its not worth trying something,better to be safe. Castrol girling Green was what was originally used this was replaced by RR363 The system should have been flushed and replaced with RR363. This would have been done in early 70's
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 12:15 PM
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Brake fluid for SS

I have had a Silver Wright II 1980 since 1983 and I have used DOT 4 all the time. Every 2-3 years the brake fluid have been changed.
I have never had any leaks or problems with the brakes during all this years.I have never heard what is supposed to happen when you do not use the RR363.Anyone knows?

Owner of Silver Wright II,1980 since 1983.
Owner of Corniche Coupe 1981 since 2008
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 12:31 PM
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363 vs Dot4

That's very interesting information.

We have carried out various experiments and determined that DOT fluids can work the same as 363, however we remained concerned about the long term effects of NOT using 363. Chemical analyses carried out by us showed that the main difference is the 363 contains a lubricant additive so we felt that this was/is important for the long term wear and tear and correct operation of the system. Because no long term tests had been taken by us, we took the position of NOT substituting the fluid and have since always continued to use 363. Perhaps now, with your long term test, you bring new information to the table. Would you mind emailing me directly at info@parkwardmotors.com

Kind regards,

Rodd
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 12:57 PM
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This is an "issue" that will never be definitively settled to the satisfaction of everyone.

There are several well known facts:

- RR363 is a DOT3/4 compliant fluid (I think it's now DOT 4, too)
- The only stated difference between RR363 and normal DOT3 fluid is the lubricating additive, widely acknowledged to be ethoxylated-propoxylated castor oil at percentages between about 8 and 10 or so (look up the MSDS)
- It is hygroscopic (like all DOT3 fluids) and really must be changed at a minimum of once every two years
- The company is never going to come up with an alternative nor endorse one. These cars have been out of production since 1980 and there is no reason on earth for them to do any R&D related to a brake/hydraulic system they haven't produced for just short of 35 years.
- Citroen owners have been experimenting with concoctions for a while now, and our systems are really not all that different from theirs

I personally know of:
- One person who's been using Prestone Synthetic DOT3 fluid exclusively for 8 years without any issues
- Three people who've been using a 90/10 DOT3 (or, in one case DOT4 Castrol GT LMA) brake fluid to pharmaceutical grade castor oil mix for 6, 5, and an unknown period of years without issue

I have conducted my own "on the shelf" experiment with a 90-10 DOT3-pharmaceutical castor oil mix for about 5 years to see if it would separate or coagulate under any conditions we normally see where I live (and, barring a polar vortex, we seldom reach even single digits F here). The stuff has remained entirely stable for that entire time in a bottle that allows me a clear view of what's happening.

This past spring when I did a rebuild of the accumulators on my Shadow II I decided that I had enough data to feel comfortable using the 90/10 mix discussed above.

The purists will insist that RR363 is the only factory recommended fluid, and they are right. There have been problems with supply of RR363 in the recent past and a "bad batch" that came out in the mid-2000s. In my mind, the writing is on the wall that RR363 is not going to be in perpetual production.

As is so common with any collector car past "a certain age" it becomes the task of the community of collectors to figure out "what works now" when so many fluids, lubricants, etc., that were recommended at the time of manufacture no longer exist.

You have to do your own homework, read quite a bit, and come to a decision you're comfortable with.

Brian, who also uses 2-EHA-free long life coolant in both my SY cars without issue (contrary to the roars of those who insist that only the old-type IAT "green stuff" is the only safe coolant to use) and the latest SN service rating motor oil, too (read the SAE and ILSAC specs and you know that this oil is perfectly fine for our cars)
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 01:32 PM
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Very, very informative. Thank you so much.
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